thoughts on the new irish refugee crisis? and i'll be joined by former justice secretary sir robert buckland following this week's horrific attack in hainault. i'll be asking him if the government is doing enough to crack down on the influx of zombie knives and samurai swords on britain's streets. an award winning writer and podcaster, julia hobsbawm, will be here to share her new book, working assumptions, which dissects the effect i will have on our working lives. it's anotherjam packed 90 minutes of pure politics which awaits, so do not even think of going anywhere. to go through this morning's newspapers , i'm delighted to be newspapers, i'm delighted to be joined now by james heale political correspondent at the spectator. lovely to see you, james. for the first time on my show, i know you do other shows, but first time here, goodness me, the sunday express seems to sum up the pm's woes this

morning. we're doomed. it says lame duck pm loses tory stronghold this is obviously in reference to andy street losing the west midlands , do you think the west midlands, do you think rishi sunak's in jeopardy at the moment ? because i'm not sensing moment? because i'm not sensing an appetite to depose him. >> i was speaking to one mp yesterday who said they want to get rid of him, frankly, but his colleagues lack the guts to do so and i think that's where we're at. >> i think the stomach has really gone out of a lot of conservative mps right now. you've got to remember there's 350 of them. about 100 are standing down. they're not particularly invested in a struggle. they want to see that. and i think there's actually, you know, personally, a lot of the tory mps quite like rishi sunak. and he's quite an inoffensive type compared to, say, boris johnson got a few colleagues backs up, but they're obviously thinking it's not about the leader necessarily, it's about the party and the party's brand, as we've seen from these elections, is pretty toxic. >> let's pore over some of the results. the mail on sunday has got very handy graphic. i mean, all of the newspapers love a graphic. this morning we've got pie charts, we've got graphs, we've got pictures of failed tory politicians with their headsin tory politicians with their heads in their hands. i mean,

it's a terrible picture. what's your overall analysis, james? i mean, it's a really, really good set of results for labour, although as the graph show, they wouldn't at the at the moment on the on the basis of the current results, which we must say don't take into account scotland which changes the picture, they couldn't form a majority government and you've got effectively the conservative vote being eaten into by reform , vote being eaten into by reform, and you've got the labour vote being eaten into by independents , largely people who are platforming on a pro—palestinian sort of george galloway esque position on so what? what's your prediction for how this might pan out at the general election? >> well, i think what's so striking to me is that actually, if you look at the projected national vote share, it's changed so little in the last 12 months. 12 months ago, may 2023 rishi sunak's first big test. it was, i think 36, 25 or 3526 for labour conservatives. this time it is 2433 i believe. and so nine points difference. so not much has really changed in the past 12 months. there's been an awful lot of noise and yet

nothing seems to be cut through. we had 30 billion of tax cuts in the autumn statement. we've had a lot of talk around the rwanda scheme and yet the tories are under water. so i think it's very, very difficult for them. i think also the untold story of this night is the liberal democrats. last year there was a lot of focus on them because there was a lot more seats up for grabs. but this time they're eating into places in surrey in the west country. and of course, the west country. and of course, the west country has been crucial to a lot of post 2015 tory successes, and then, of course, labour does have this issue about the gaza vote and what's going to happen there. and i think it was telling perhaps that sadiq khan, for instance, in london, didn't have someone running on that kind of pro—palestine slate, someone like a jeremy corbyn figure, as though someone that would have been devastating to khans, vote share, i would imagine. >> i mean, you're talking about the tories being under water. is starmer emerging like a phoenix from the waves, i should say, mixing my metaphors here. but is he emerging triumphant? because the turnout is low? we notice, for instance, in blackpool south for instance, in blackpool south for that by—election that actually the vote share for labour was lower than it was in 2019, but obviously still they won it . people, this isn't like won it. people, this isn't like 97 and the local elections that

preceded blair. it's not like people are champing at the bit for starmer. that's what i find interesting here. and that's to not denigrate what labour have achieved. they've had a great set of local election results and the tories have had a terrible set. but i it's not feeling like 1997 again to me. i don't know what you think. >> well of course back in 97 we had 2.5 to 4% economic growth here, which we could kill for right now. >> yes. yeah, yeah. >> yes. yeah, yeah. >> but look, the fact that the liberal democrats have won more councillors than the tories the first time since 1996, that ought to send a shiver down the spine of every conservative up for election this year. i think that if you look at compare this to the general, you're not going to the general, you're not going to have things like residents associations standing in the general election. you're not going to see the greens win dozens of independents. so i think that it's a very different contest. and when it comes down to tory versus anti—tory, the anti—tory forces seem to be in the ascendancy across the country right now. >> let's look at what happens next. we note that tim shipman has written in the sunday times, johnson in touch with to farage realign the right. your response

to that, james? >> these are the two big characters, the right in british politics, aren't they? and they dominated the last election. i think what's so striking now is how few kind of great characters there are on the conservative side. i don't think it will be this side of the election. i think farage will come back in some capacity, do a big sort of 6 or 7 week campaign in not run for clacton. >> i mean, that's what's been rumoured in the papers this morning because it's the only seat he might have a chance of winning, having tried seven times and failed, i think, do you think he'll just be there in a kind of figurehead role rather than running as an mp? >> i think people talk about him. it's like cincinnati style. they're going to plough, you know. you know, he's there in westminster. you know, he's about he just needs to basically come back for six, seven weeks, lay down his, gb news microphone and he could happily god for some role. >> i don't want anyone laying down gb news temporarily. >> temporarily. but i think bofis >> temporarily. but i think boris johnson i mean, there's reports in the mail on sunday talking about how he's very happy he's earned 8 million since leaving downing street. >> nice work if you can get it. >> nice work if you can get it. >> absolutely. and enjoying his country house in oxfordshire. so i don't think he'll do anything this side of an election. he'll keep his powder dry for next time. >> i mean, it's interesting to see suella braverman writing an

0p see suella braverman writing an op ed in the telegraph, where she is saying that it isn't the time to get rid of rishi sunak, while at the same time saying rishi sunaks rubbish and i regret voting for him, i mean, what does he do? because i think it's interesting to have this debate about what comes next for the tories in terms of trying to win back these voters that seemingly are either flirting with reform at the moment. i don't know whether that means that it will translate into a general election vote, but there are other flirting with reform. or they're saying, i'm not turning out at all because i'm so angry with what the tory parties have. a tory party has done, and squandering this 80 seat majority and getting rid of bofis seat majority and getting rid of boris and all the rest of it, andy street saying, well, we must now be more moderate, this is how we win. we must be moderate and not be dragged to the right. and then, of course, those who are tearing their hair out going, what happened to the conservative party? why is it so wet? we'll be saying you absolutely have to lurch to the right, because that's how you pick up the reform vote. >> this is the whole thing. the conservative coalition is completely split on this. and so i looked at suella braverman article and the kind of prescription she would give to solve the tory party's woes, things like the echr membership, for instance, you know, a lot of the tories on the left or the

centre of the party, the one nafion centre of the party, the one nation group, would be horrified by that, including members of the cabinet who really don't want to pull out of the european court. so i think the problem is, is that every time rishi sunak tries to announce something big is that it alienates one of his two wings of his party. so talk about being a lame duck. he's certainly about, i think, struggling to fly and keeping the left wing and the right wing augned the left wing and the right wing aligned here. >> but then it takes courage, doesn't it? pick a side. yeah. and fight for it. set out vision. >> was the thatcher line, isn't it? i mean, run down. if you send the middle road you get run down by both sides. i think, you know, what's striking is often with this party management style, it's about what is the kind of common denominator all sides can agree on. so it's things like disability benefit changes. it's things like cracking down on legal migration. that's what we're going to see a lot of in the next 2 or 3 weeks. and i think for number 10 challenge is to try and convince it. mps no you haven't given up yet. you've still got a chance and basically have a lot of energy and an initiative. and that's what we're going to see. we saw in the last couple of weeks with the last couple of weeks with the defence spending announcement. we're going to see announcement. we're going to see a lot more of that in the next ten days. >> let's talk about how important immigration might be. i mean, i think it's the second most important issue for voters, after the economy, when it comes to they're going to choose to how they're going to choose

their vote come the general election. got the mail on sunday reporting that 155 out of 29,000 boat migrants have been removed. so what gp so i don't know what the gp audience makes of these figures . audience makes of these figures. 155 out of 29,000 might just ask, what's the point? i mean, the boats aren't being stopped and the migrants that come here aren't being sent back , so aren't being sent back, so that's failed. and then you've got the observer , which we've got the observer, which we've chosen just to give both sides of the coin here, talking about. and it's the image that's interesting here. it's reflecting on those people that protested to stop the bus from leaving the western hotel in peckham to go to the bibby stockholm . and they're being stockholm. and they're being very sympathetic with the way that asylum seekers are being treated. but it illustrates his dual problem. first of all, getting rwanda off the ground and getting it to work and clearing backlogs and all the rest of it, literally, from a logistical point of view and then there's the practicalities. are we going to see every attempt to deport migrants being kiboshed by protesters? you know, they're outside buses? the next thing we know, there'll be a airports when we've seen a lot

of direct action, you know, things like just up oil in a different context over the past few years. >> so i know the home office is really worried about this, and they've been trying to do things like you know, practice in secret in terms of when you have people on a plane trying to resist arrest, etc. those kind of things have been going on behind the scenes. there's two issues here. one is about the operationality of the scheme and one is about the deterrent effect. now, i actually think there probably will be some flights to rwanda. we've already seen one voluntary deportation, albeit with a three grand to go there this week, but i think they will get the flights on the ground. the key question is, of course, is what happens if they don't start, you deterring don't start, you know, deterring people from arriving? had 711 people from arriving? we had 711 people from arriving? we had 711 people arrive one day last week, the biggest single day arrival since 2022. and i think that would be the worst of both worlds. well, hang on a sukh you spent so much money you did get off the ground. it wasn't these direct action protests. it was actually the fact that people just kept on coming regardless . just kept on coming regardless. and i think we've got to remember that this is, of course, that the people who the home office are going to put on the first flights are the most reprehensible, despicable types. you're the murderers, you know, sort of people who committed crimes to identify and deport. what happens when you've got people with much more difficult, heart tugging story? and think heart tugging story? and i think a of middle england read, a lot of middle england read, you know, people, things like the observer story and, you

know, this kind of talk of people being disappeared, etc, and feel a little bit uncomfortable. it's a very difficult issue. and of course, all this adds to time and rishi sunak does not have time. he has to go to the country in less than seven months. yeah. and you know, this kind of stuff took, for instance , thatcher in terms for instance, thatcher in terms of fixing the british economy about 11 years. you know, he this should be done. this kind of takes years to, to, to undo the whole system of migration. the eu, for instance, has had nine years of discussions on migration and asylum. rishi sunak hasn't got nine months. so it's going to be very difficult to solve this, this side of an election . election. >> and let's also quickly talk about the other big story of the week. i mean, obviously it's in the shadows now because of the local election results. but these students sit ins, si king student sit ins now in bristol and at ucl in a sort of copycat of what's been going on in america , particularly with america, particularly with columbia university. earlier in the week, we saw those scenes with the police there in america going in and removing these people. it's different to a protest, isn't it, james? because this is students now sort of setting up tents. it's an encampment. how does the government react to this, do you think? >> well, i think the government will probably want to get less involved in this kind of thing.

and say, look, this is all students being students. you know, i remember being at university and seeing a similar kind of occupy movement about this was about rent and cost of living , etc. i think that it's living, etc. i think that it's going to be key is that making sure that nothing happens in terms of anti—semitic abuse. and i thought it was interesting the union of jewish students have come out and said, look, we've been sick of this since the 7th of october last year, going on for months now. so i think the key thing is ensuring that if it is a campus issue, it remains on campus and doesn't spoil into kind of anti—semitic hate crime incidents, for instance. and i think that's the kind of key line the government has to walk, particularly, of course, rishi sunak gave that big speech outside number 10 about six weeks ago. and i think people want to see action on this. and that's something i think actually the whole party would get behind suella braverman on in that telegraph op ed she talks about. >> it's interesting as well that this whole gaza situation may well have quite acute bearing on what happens in the general election, i think for years to come. >> and the fact that, as with west midlands, george galloway's backed candidate got 11% of the vote, came third. that has real ramifications and a lot of labour mps. okay, they'll be celebrating the results today, but they'll be thinking about how do i play this in my constituency, particularly if they've got 1 in 5 voters, a muslim, for instance?

>> well, i'll be asking pat mcfadden a bit later in the show, you know, is labour going to change its stance in a cynical attempt to win back some of these muslim voters? and you've seen that with starmer saying already, we need to win back trust, etc. i wonder how they do that. james heale thank you very much indeed for joining us this morning. you can read all of james work in the spectator now. coming up next, former secretary of state for northern ireland theresa villiers will be joining me following last week's rwandan ruling. what does she make of the recent influx of migrants

welcome back to gb news. you're watching the camilla tominey show i'm delighted to be joined now by former secretary of state for northern ireland and conservative mp for chipping barnet, theresa villiers. lovely to see you this morning, theresa. thank you very much for coming in. really difficult weekend for tories, particularly mps in london as you are. what's your reaction to the local election results? >> well, they're a really bleak

set of results for the conservatives. there's no getting around that. i i, we do need to reflect on them. i think one of the, the only mitigations is that when these seats were last contested, it was 2021 and we were at the peak of a vaccine bounce. we were at the peak of a vaccine bounce . so yes, our our results bounce. so yes, our our results were, you know, the best we'd had since 2008. >> i know, but they are the worst now in more than 40 years. and i suppose the question on everyone's lips is what needs to change? because rishi sunak and i'm sure mark harper, the transport secretary, will come on and say, well, we've got to stick to the plan. the plan isn't working, is it? >> i think in in london we fought quite a negative campaign and we need to reflect on that and we need to reflect on that and start thinking about a more positive message. but but nationally, i think, you know, at the heart of this is ensuring that we're raising living standards that people feel better off and that they know we've got a plan for that to continue. >> but do you think people do

feel they're better off after 14 years of tory rule? i mean, i think pollsters polling suggests that people really don't. and that's a massive problem . people that's a massive problem. people don't think that a conservative administration has advanced them i >> -- >> we need to do more. clearly, we've made some progress . we've made some progress. inflation has halved. wages are rising. there's 4 million more people in work and only a week or so ago, people had a £900 tax cut. so there is real progress. but these results show that it's not enough . we've got to make not enough. we've got to make sure we deliver. in the months pnor sure we deliver. in the months prior to the general election . prior to the general election. >> when you say that the campaign was too negative in london, are you holding susan hall responsible for that? do you think she attacked sadiq khan too much? what are you saying? >> i think it was. >> i think it was. >> it was. i think they ran a campaign which was understandable in the circumstances, given the grave concern felt about sadiq khan's record. but it hasn't worked, and we need to think about how we do things differently next time. and, for example , you

time. and, for example, you know, look again at the national picture. we've got a revolutionary and incredibly radical offer on childcare that's going to make a huge difference . to young families difference. to young families the length and breadth of the country, i know, but isn't it? we're not really talking about that kind of thing, because the macro picture of sort of 14 years of tory failure and this idea that the conservatives aren't representative . of their aren't representative. of their own voters anymore is overshadowing all of the detail . overshadowing all of the detail. >> so you can be talking about little pockets of policy, and we can agree that maybe he did have a good week last week. rishi sunak with rwanda appearing to be a deterrent, particularly for migrants who have now crossed the irish sea to try and get into ireland. but but the macro picture is one of failure and it's one of a lack of hope. and how do you reverse that? >> we do have a strong record. we've delivered a huge amount. i mean, for example, reading standards in schools are hugely better than they were when we came to office as a result of conservative reforms, which are

opposed by labour every step of the way. and i think we do need to address concerns of people who are switching to reform or thinking about, do you do that? >> do you think ? >> do you think? >> do you think? >> well, i think we have to emphasise that, you know, if they vote reform, they will end up with a labour government. i know, but then that argument isn't that persuasive because it's almost saying, well , you it's almost saying, well, you know, the conservatives aren't great, but labour is even worse. >> therefore don't vote reform. it needs to be a much more positive offer than that. i mean, i appreciate you're in a really difficult position and i'm not going to, you know, go really hard on you because you're not actually on cabinet. you're a tory mp, you're fighting for your life in barnet. your majority is, what, 1212. yes. that's right. are you really worried about losing your seat. >> well it's it was always going to be a tough contest. i'm absolutely up for the fight and i've got a good track record to stand on. but yes, i these results do has gone labour, hasn't it. >> barnet and camden is labour

that was that portion of london in the mayoral elections that voted for khan. i mean and this is intriguing as well, because obviously i would associate barnet with being quite a jewish area. everything that we've seen with the pro—palestinian marches, i mean, you're constituents can't be particularly happy with khan at the moment. so what's happened? they're not happy with khan, but they're not happy with the tories either. >> well the count doesn't this time round distinguish between different constituencies within one gla constituency . see. so one gla constituency. see. so there's obviously a huge labour voting constituency has come out in favour of khan. the results obviously show that the barnet and camden gla constituency backed sadiq khan. yeah >> but that's, that's a that's that's a that's a terrible indictment when you consider that your constituents, some of your constituents because i know that area. i'm from hertfordshire, some of your constituents are jewish and must be really, really worried about how khan has handled the pro—palestinian marches and situation in. and yet still you

can't make headway . can't make headway. >> i, i don't think one can categorise or make statements about the whole of the jewish population in barnet. but yes , population in barnet. but yes, many of my jewish constituents have expressed grave concern about how the marches have been policed . and along with them, policed. and along with them, i've sent in several complaints , i've sent in several complaints, reported a number of incidents to the police , clearly, there to the police, clearly, there are a range of factors that determine how people voted in the mayoral election. >> i mean, the government said they've got confidence in sir mark rowley, the met police chief commissioner. i'm wondering whether some of the jews in your constituency have that confidence. they've spoken to you about it, some have certainly called on him to go. yeah. as i say, there isn't a uniform view. you know, one of mark rowley's problems is that the law is very restrictive in terms of what protests and demonstrations can be banned. i

think there is a good case for changing the law. at the moment. the police can only ban a march if there's a fear of serious pubuc if there's a fear of serious public disorder. i think in deciding whether a march is permitted or not, the police should be able to take into account the cumulative impact of successive marches and their impact on community cohesion and potential hate crime. >> that's interesting. so if you change the law , i mean, would change the law, i mean, would you be is that something that you're lobbying for behind the scenes? how much conservative support is there for that? because we keep on having this kind of buck passing going on between the government saying that the police have the powers and the police saying that they don't have the powers. you seem to be siding with the idea that more legislation is needed to clamp down on what's been happening in the capital since october the 7th. i think it is. >> this is a suggestion that came from lord walney in the house of lords in the. whether he did on these issues for the government. and i would like to see that go forward. we have seen some tightening the laws on protests for . example, people

protests for. example, people can now be arrested if they refuse to remove face coverings. but we need to go further because i just don't think it's i don't think we should carry on as we are with, you know, a community afraid to go into the centre of our capital city on a saturday for fear of, being intimidated or harassed . as a intimidated or harassed. as a result of their faith. >> i mean, you were a leading brexiteer during the referendum campaign. what's your reaction to what's been going on between rishi sunak and the irish taoiseach, simon harris, with regard to these migrants now trying to get into the eu via northern ireland, to ireland? >> well, there is a sort of certain irony here in that the irish government were well, they almost kind of weaponized the issues around the north south border, and they were very ideological about it. and now to turn around, a few months later and start sort of suggesting the potential for some kind of police checks on the border, which i gather they've they've now retreated from. but it does i think it's early stages, but it does seem to show that the

rwanda scheme, even though it's not yet operational, is starting to impact on migrant behaviour. >> but when you and campaigned with the likes of boris johnson and michael gove, talking about taking back control of our borders as a brexiteer, you cannot be happy with the notion of legal migration being at 745,000 last year. let alone illegal migration being out of control. what must the government do to bring these numbers down? and should there be a cap on illegal migration, perhaps the overall levels of migration are too high. >> they they do need to come down when you've got sort of 600,000 plus net migration. it's just not feasible for the country to accommodate that kind of population. also, a population increase. >> who voted for brexit thinking it would bring immigration down isn't it? >> well, it does need to come down. and we're seeing for example, the number of dependents of students have come down dramatically since the rules were changed. and we're also cracking down on all sorts of ways on workers bringing independence . and obviously the independence. and obviously the rwanda scheme is hopefully going

to be operational in a few weeks, but that the immigration levels being as high as they are, unprecedented levels of immigration happen is a betrayal of people who voted for to brexit control borders better. >> it is a betrayal, isn't it? >> it is a betrayal, isn't it? >> it is a betrayal, isn't it? >> i look, i wouldn't describe it like that, but we do need to get these numbers down. they are they're they're not sustainable. >> one of the main reasons why people are defecting to reform. that's why i make this point, this controlling immigration or the lack of the government's ability to do so, has pushed people into the arms of richard tice and nigel farage. so it's an absolute urgent priority to bnng an absolute urgent priority to bring down legal migration , let bring down legal migration, let alone illegal. yes. why would anyone have faith in the government doing that, when these are the numbers that the tories have been presiding over? these are sort of blairite numbers and the tories have been presiding over them . presiding over them. >> yes. and they need to come down and they are in certain sectors. they are coming down applications via visa routes in certain sectors are coming down as well. >> final question, theresa, if

you could phone rishi sunak tomorrow and give him one piece of advice of how to try and rescue this situation, what would it be? >> make sure we deliver the plan to raise living standards, cut taxes, keep inflation falling . taxes, keep inflation falling. >> and what if the people say the plan isn't working? change the plan isn't working? change the plan isn't working? change the plan or stick to the plan? >> well, we have to deliver on our manifesto, and we have to make sure people's living standards are rising. all right. >> theresa villiers, thank you very much indeed forjoining me this morning. i appreciate it's not an easy morning to come on to the broadcast round. so thank you very much indeed. lots more to come. in the next hour i'm going to be joined by transport minister mark harper and pat mcfadden, the man managing labour's election campaign. don't we've got don't go anywhere. we've got lots more to cover in the next houn lots more to cover in the next hour, so stay tuned

welcome back to the camilla tominey show. so still. so much

more to come in the next hour. don't forget, i've got the two big interviews of the show still to come. i'm going to be joined by transport secretary mark harper and pat mcfadden. who's the man managing labour's general election campaign. but first, here's the news headlines with ray addison . with ray addison. >> good morning. it's 10 am. i'm ray addison in the gb newsroom. the prime minister is promising to take the fight to laboun promising to take the fight to labour. despite suffering mayoral election losses in england's two biggest cities. labour's richard parker sees the west midlands from outgoing conservative mayor andy street and london mayor sadiq khan secured a historic third term in office. former home secretary suella braverman told gb news mr sunak needs to make big, bold decisions. >> there's no time to change leaders, so the prime minister is going to be leading us into the next general election, whether we like it or not. what

he needs to do to salvage this dire situation is to accept the enormity of the problem. these terrible results, and quickly and urgently change course. so make sure that there are meaningful tax cuts that people can feel and benefit from. put a cap on legal migration. take us out of the european convention on human rights so that we actually stop the boats and make sure that we reclaim our streets back from the extremists . back from the extremists. >> labour leader sir keir starmer says it's time for change. >> the big story of all these elections, including these elections, including these elections, is a nation that is desperate to turn the page and move on. and this is the message to the prime minister and to the government. so many people have had enough of 14 years of decline that has cost them and their families and their communities. they're fed up with the chaos and the division and the chaos and the division and the non—delivery, and they want to turn the page, turn their back on that decline and usher in national renewal with labour.

>> sadiq khan is beginning his third term as london mayor after securing a majority of 275,000 over conservative rival susan hall. mr khan has accused the tories of running a campaign of, quote, fear mongering and non—stop negativity. he also said that london had rejected hard right wing populism. susan hall, who ran against mayor khan, is urging him to reform the met and make london safe again. mayor khan says he's excited for the future. >> londoners want to see a change in government, and what they're excited about is the chance of a labour mayor working with a labour government led by keir starmer. i'm excited. with a labour government led by keir starmer . i'm excited. the keir starmer. i'm excited. the last time that happened was 20 years ago and us working together. care. the cabinet a labour mayor. londoners will see a transformed city i can't wait. >> police are searching for a man who absconded from an open prison in suffolk . 23 year old prison in suffolk. 23 year old ricky wall was reported missing from hollesley bay in woodbridge

yesterday morning. suffolk police say he failed to appear for roll call. wall is currently serving a seven year sentence for aggravated burglary with intent to. thousands of properties are still without running water in east sussex due to a burst pipe there. southern water has issued an apology to customers in saint leonards on sea, hastings and westfield as they enter their fourth day of disruption . in a statement, the disruption. in a statement, the firm said they hoped the supply will start to gradually return throughout today . anti—monarchy throughout today. anti—monarchy campaigners are holding a rally today in london to mark the first anniversary of the coronation of king charles. campaigners will gather in trafalgar square to protest arrests made during the event. organisers say britain has never seen such an energised, active and growing democratic republican movement. but former royal butler grant harrold told us there's too much to lose . us there's too much to lose. >> you know, we only we've only got this one royal family and if we got rid of them then that's

it.then we got rid of them then that's it. then what makes us unique? i feel that our royal family does make us quite unique and special. and without going into it , you know what it costs each it, you know what it costs each of us is it's still very little in the big scheme of things . in the big scheme of things. >> okay, for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. common alerts. back now to . camilla. alerts. back now to. camilla. >> welcome back to the camilla tominey show. lovely to have your company this morning. the sun is shining. do stay tuned because we've got our biggest interviews still to come. i'm going to be speaking to labour's pat mcfadden in just a moment. i'm also going to be speaking to mark harper , the transport mark harper, the transport secretary, to find out what he thinks the solution is to tories worst local election results in 40 years. i'm also going to be speaking to an author who's written a book very interestingly about al and whether it's going to steal the march on jobs, and i'll be speaking to former justice secretary sir robert buckland to ask him whether the government

should be doing more to ban zombie knives and samurai swords after that horrific attack in hainault earlier this week. but let's bring pat mcfadden into the conversation now. he's the man who's going to be co—ordinating labour's general election campaign. he's the shadow chancellor of the duchy of lancaster. mr and he's also the labour mp for wolverhampton south east i should mention mr mcfadden you must be cock a hoop with these results . with these results. congratulations >> oh thank you. yeah. there are tremendous local election results. we won councils and seats in places that we haven't for some years. it's changed the electoral map. i think it's given us a sense of belief and confidence, it underlines the progress that we've made in recent years. and, of course, if i can be allowed to be a bit local, it was all capped by that wonderful result for us in the west midlands mayoral contest last night. and my own

constituency is in wolverhampton south east, so i was particularly pleased to see that one. >> well, you must have been relieved about the west midlands, not least because the labour run council in birmingham has been bankrupted . has been bankrupted. >> yeah. and, like a number of local authorities, you know, it's in financial trouble. local authorities of all different political stripes, i should say birmingham is not the only one, in the country. and of course, that was a difficult thing for us during the campaign. but we managed to overcome that. and just win by the narrowest of margins. but, you know , as i say margins. but, you know, as i say in politics, a win is a win. and one is enough. >> a win is a win. although the house of commons projection, if you translate the local election results into a national picture, suggests that the labour party will fall short of an overall majority . i will fall short of an overall majority. i mean, i appreciate we haven't factored scotland into this picture , but at the into this picture, but at the same time, what does that say

about starmer's leadership? because i appreciate you've had a very, very good local election result and you've had good results in your mayoral elections. so congratulations on that credit. where credit's due . that credit. where credit's due. however, if we look at the share of vote to the labour party in blackpool south, for instance, it's lower than it was in 2019. varne we haven't got a picture like before, 97, when tony blair rose to power of , you know, an rose to power of, you know, an absolutely outstanding night for starmer. it seems that the electorate is still rather ambivalent about the idea of prime minister starmer. >> well, let me make two points in response to that. camilla, first of all, on share of the vote, what we look for is the map, the electoral map of what's happening in the key seats. you mentioned that one in blackpool, but if i look at other, key constituencies that will be decisive in the general election , places like nuneaton or milton keynes or thurrock or cannock, we're doing well in these places in a way that we haven't for

some years. and, you know, you can boost the share of the vote just by piling up votes in places where you're already strong, but it doesn't actually win. you anything extra because you're already winning there. so our the thing that we really look at is the map. but the second point i would make is i'm the first person, as the party's election co—ordinator, to say there's more work to do when it comes to that general election . comes to that general election. i don't want to make predictions because not a single vote has been cast in it. and what i would say is that the really good local election results that we've had have given us a sense of belief that we haven't had for many years, but we know we've still got work to do to win the trust of the british people, to stop the chaos that we've seen in recent years and turn the page in the tory years. and that's what we'll be trying to do between now and whenever the prime minister calls the general election. >> if the labour party can't win an overall majority and we're in an overall majority and we're in a hung parliament situation

again, then would you entertain? would you consider doing a deal with the liberal democrats or the snp ? i appreciate it's a the snp? i appreciate it's a hypothetical, but i'm asking you if you would consider it. >> i think you know what i'm going to say to that, we're not thinking about deals of that kind with anyone. we are aiming to get a majority government because the country needs stability. after the chaos of the tory years, and you know, we will represent that stability. turning the page on that chaos. and that's the case that will take to the public between now and the election. >> mr mcfadden , i want to speak >> mr mcfadden, i want to speak to you about the sort of gaza effect on the labour vote, first of all, can i clarify something? are you still vice chair of the labour friends of israel ? labour friends of israel? >> yes. that's correct, yes . >> yes. that's correct, yes. >> so what's your opinion then? you obviously saw that independent candidate that was very much standing on a pro—palestinian position in west

midlands. eat into richard parker's vote. they're getting 11. we've seen this picture mirrored haven't we, across the uk in these local elections. it's a little bit like these pro—palestinian candidates are eating into the labour vote in the same way that reform are eating into the tory vote. ellie reeves, your colleague, has said labour will, quote, rebuild trust with muslim voters . does trust with muslim voters. does that mean the labour party might have to change its stance on israel having the right to defend herself ? defend herself? >> well, i think it's not across the country. i think it's in some pockets and i did some interviews on friday where i said this was an issue for us in some pockets of the country. but two things have guided our position all along. one is the one that you just mentioned, which is israel's right to defend itself after the appalling attacks on october the 7th that will remain. we will

stick up for that. but we also want to see a better future for the palestinian people. and there's a terrible humanitarian situation down there in gaza, where some people are facing hungen where some people are facing hunger. we need to get aid in. and in the longer term, get a better future for the palestinian people. these two things have guided us all the way along, so we understand why people have got a humanitarian concern for what's going on there. we want a better future for the palestinian people, too. and if we were to be elected at the coming election, that would be a big foreign policy priority for us if we won power. >> i know, but i'm just trying to drill into what ellie reeves orindeed to drill into what ellie reeves or indeed members of the shadow cabinet mean by rebuilding trust with muslim voters. how do you really do that? unless you move away from your position of being supportive of israel and switch to a position more aligned with, say, george galloway's workers party? >> no, you don't. you don't have to do that. i think what you you

know, what you do is you say to me, well, you understand why you're concerned about innocent people being killed. we all, you know, we share that concern . we know, we share that concern. we want to get proper aid into palestine. we want the people there to have a better life. it doesn't mean doing what you described in, you know, abandoning things that you've said in the past. we don't have to do that. so how do you build that trust with muslim voters, then? >> mr mcfadden? because he won't vote for you if you still remain. they're not going to come over back to you, are they? if keir starmer continues with his positioning on israel, they won't come back to you . won't come back to you. >> well, i think you say to people, we understand why you feel strongly about this. we want to help the palestinian people too. we want a better future for them that doesn't require you to change what you've said in the past. i think it's showing an understanding of why there is a humanitarian concern for people there, because they are living in a very difficult and desperate situation . ian. situation. ian. >> okay, can i ask you a

question about london, the campaign between sadiq khan and susan hall at times was, you know, quite punchy. we had wes streeting your colleague, the man wanting to be the next health secretary. he tweeted this in advance of that campaign in a win for susan hall and the conservatives is a win for racists, white supremacists and islamophobes the world over. do you think londoners who voted for susan hall are racists , for susan hall are racists, white supremacists and islamophobes ? islamophobes? >> look , i think, elections are >> look, i think, elections are often heated , i'm very relieved often heated, i'm very relieved and pleased that sadiq khan won . and pleased that sadiq khan won. i thought he always would win. i never believed any of this , never believed any of this, panic. that thought he was in serious jeopardy . and the big serious jeopardy. and the big question i think about this is if the tories really thought they had a chance in london, i think they should have taken it more seriously. i don't want to be unkind about anyone, but i

don't think if you were taking it really seriously that susan hall would have been the candidate . i agree with you, and candidate. i agree with you, and i can't understand why they thought if they had a real chance, that they picked her to run. so i'm pleased and relieved that sadiq has won . and we can that sadiq has won. and we can turn the page on that now and he can continue. mr mcfadden , an can continue. mr mcfadden, an unprecedented third term, respectfully . respectfully. >> that is not answering my question at all. i agree with you that the conservative party campaign headquarters could have done a lot more for susan hall. but i've asked you whether you think that people who voted for her in london are racist, white supremacist and islamophobes because that's what wes streeting thinks . well, look, i streeting thinks. well, look, i would not describe the electorate in that way, no. >> so he was wrong. >> so he was wrong. >> was he entitled to make that choice? and i'm relieved that i'm relieved that the labour candidate won. and i'm pleased that he won, if you want. so was wes streeting ting wrong? i suggest you get him on your program. i will, and he often

comes on this program. bring him on. >> but should he apologise ? >> but should he apologise? >> but should he apologise? >> oh, that's up to him. as i said, if you want to speak to wes, you can get him on the program. i'm pleased that sadiq won the election. >> all right. pat mcfadden , >> all right. pat mcfadden, thank you very, very much indeed for joining us this morning. forjoining us this morning. great to speak to you. thank you. hi. in just a minute , i'll you. hi. in just a minute, i'll be getting the other side of the argument from transport secretary mark harper and asking him for his reaction to the conservatives worst local election results in over 40

welcome back to the camilla tominey show . on gb news, we're tominey show. on gb news, we're going to wait for mark harper to be ready. the transport secretary is going to be joining us to dissect those local election results. while he's doing that, i'm delighted to be joined in the studio by former justice secretary sir robert buckland, the conservative mp for south swindon. good morning,

sir robert. good morning, lovely to see you. you look chirpier than theresa villiers because it's not been a great weekend for you guys is it. >> well i've had elections in swindon. they were pretty tough for us as well. some signs of revival i think, what is happening is that a lot of voters who support us are not coming out to vote. they're on strike. they are sending us a clear message, labour clearly got their tails up. their voters are coming out to support their candidates . and you're seeing candidates. and you're seeing that differential turnout in local elections. it's very different from a general election at the moment. the polls look grim , there's a lot polls look grim, there's a lot of work to be done, and i think what we need to be doing instead of worrying about other parties , of worrying about other parties, we should be making an alliance with the british people. you know, the conservative party has always been strong by being augned always been strong by being aligned with the british people. so let's talk about issues like housing, like making sure that we can provide homes for not just young people, but people in their late 30s who want to have a stake in our society. and really get us into a place where people feel they have they have

ownership. yes. and they are involved in our national life. >> is home ownership has gone down under the tories. sir robert, this is the problem. people can't afford to get on the housing ladder. and you say you need to have a dialogue with the electorate. is the electorate actually listening ? electorate actually listening? is the electorate just putting its fingers in its ears, going enough already? 14 years of chaos, umpteen prime ministers in and out got a prime minister with a five point plan, which people find patronising and annoying. that doesn't seem to be working well. >> i think first of all, elections are about the future. we don't get thanked on our record, but we do need to show more about how far we've come on issues like the triple lock for pensioners. on growing the economy. we still grew faster than most of the major economies in europe. >> it's not great growth . you >> it's not great growth. you know, liz truss had a point, didn't she? >> of course she did. and i was a part of that government. and i think growth is a very important agenda for us. i think the conservatives going into the election still can resonate if they actually talk about what people want to discuss, and they do want to talk not just about,

you know , the issues like, like you know, the issues like, like immigration, which are important, but they want to talk about issues about public services. why can't our public services. why can't our public services work better? we spend a huge amount of money on them. let's make sure they're more efficient. and the issue that i've just mentioned about giving people a stake in our future, now, if we are front footed on that , if we now, if we are front footed on that, if we are now, if we are front footed on that , if we are positive, not that, if we are positive, not just talking about our record , just talking about our record, which i think we need to do more of, frankly reminding people we've come out of a covid crisis that really exposed, i think, a lot of weaknesses in our public services. and come on to a bold agenda of reform there with the offer of a sensible and sensible. >> you're going down the street direction because this is the big debate, isn't it? we've got suella braverman , this morning suella braverman, this morning saying we've got to urgently change course. she now regrets backing rishi sunak as prime minister. is that something you regret? >> well , you know, no. i regret? >> well, you know, no. i think that the time for talking about personalities and the party talking to itself is well over.

that's why the british public are putting their fingers in their ears, because they just hear tories talking about unite or die. >> we unite or die. but where do you go from here? because andrew andy street is saying we must be very moderate. we must just not, you know, veer from the path of moderate conservative politics. and yet at the same time, you've got reform eating into your vote because they've got more of a appeal to right wingers and maybe the conservative government. and maybe you're part of the problem. sir robert, because you're a moderate, isn't conservative enough . and that's conservative enough. and that's the issue here. >> utterly disagree. i think i've been a tory for 40 legal migration. i've been a tory tax, been a tory for 40 years. >> terrible picture for businesses starting up in this country. >> the point you make about business is one that i think andy street reflects very well, because he's a businessman . he because he's a businessman. he attracted a lot of investment into the west midlands. he is pro—business. he's on the side of growing the economy and growing pro—palestinian marches through the streets of london, which are intimidating. >> jewish people sit ins at universities. >> camilla, i absolutely agree with with you on that issue, which is why i'm on the side of

making sure our public order legislation is strong. i passed legislation is strong. i passed legislation myself when i was in government. i'm not at all frightened of taking the necessary robust steps to keep our people safe. but there's a bigger agenda here. you know, the more that we talk about factions and ideology, and the less we focus on business, on growth , on jobs, on housing, all growth, on jobs, on housing, all those issues that actually people are talking about, which is what andy street reflects. theni is what andy street reflects. then i think we've become an irrelevant rump. the conservative party wins elections not by being soft and mushy , but by reflecting the mushy, but by reflecting the views of the british public, by being in alliance with them. you know, the coalition that we need is with the british people. we've been the party of the nafion we've been the party of the nation for generations . i nation for generations. i believe we can get back to that, but we need to focus on what people are talking about rather than focusing on ourselves. >> talking about immigration a lot, aren't they? >> they are. and i've mentioned that myself. i think that now that myself. i think that now that the legislation is through, i think that we've got to make

sure the rwanda plan works. but it's more than that . well, it's it's more than that. well, it's more than that. i've always said, well, you haven't liked massive aspects of the rwanda plan. >> from the very beginning, i was concerned about the law and making sure that the law was less fragile. >> so we didn't end up with the sort of legal challenges we've had in the past. but i've always said as well, it's part of a multifaceted approach. i mean, look what's happening now with ireland. it's very interesting. the irish government are saying what they're saying. i think we need to be robust on that and say, okay, yeah , you you're say, okay, yeah, you you're sharing the challenge that we've got . let's all work together and got. let's all work together and let's see countries like france actually have a proper returns policy as well, because these are all safe countries. >> look, i'd like the benefit of your wisdom as a former justice secretary, just to discuss a few justice and crime matters . we've justice and crime matters. we've had this tribute to this lovely boy, this 14 year old daniel anjorin , i mean, i can't look at anjorin, i mean, i can't look at an image of this kid. i've got a child a similar age. you know, a boy. this child goes to school, he's got his headphones in. he's attacked . the proceedings are

attacked. the proceedings are active, so we can't say more about it at this stage . got this about it at this stage. got this tribute from his parents, who? i mean , the mind boggles, mean, the mind boggles, actually, to what those that couple are going through right now. this kid doesn't come home from school , looking at it from school, looking at it objectively , not even as a objectively, not even as a journalist, actually, just as a mum, i cannot understand why you can have a situation where a bloke is in the street with a samurai sword that big. and we've seen this in other cases where people have got hold of machetes, where people have got hold of zombie knives, surely the government needs to legislate and just as you've got a licence to carry a gun, you have to have a licence to carry a knife over a certain size , i a knife over a certain size, i think that we've got a panoply of laws that , of course, make of laws that, of course, make these things criminal, but it seems to me that we're in a situation now where i think your point is a very powerful one. you know, these are still far too readily available implements. they are weapons of death, as we see. and i think

that therefore, now we need to look at a system whereby we, supply and possession of these items is much more restricted. we did it with certain types of firearms in the aftermath of dunblane. it was controversial, but it was right. and we haven't had an atrocity reaching that scale since 1996, as opposed to the united states, where they seem to sort of shrug their shoulders and live with that sort of thing as a father, as a dad myself, there's no way i could live with the consequences when this is such a no brainer. >> why haven't we seen legislation already? because clearly there's cross party support for it. yvette cooper i think in the mirror today, the sunday mirror saying, you know, we'd ban these knives outright. what why have the tories done this? >> well, to be fair, there's been a lot of work done on the banning and restriction of knives. i did work when i was in government to tighten up the minimum terms, zombie knives. now, there's an announcement only a few months ago, about now, a total ban on them. it seems that when you do one thing, the makers of these

weapons , which is what they are, weapons, which is what they are, seem to try and get around the law, well, i think now we need to future proof the law as we did with those so—called legal highs. remember that danger a few years ago? let's do the same thing . let's future proof, and thing. let's future proof, and let's look at a system whereby actual possession has to be registered so that we know where these items are. nobody should be carrying a samurai sword , for be carrying a samurai sword, for god's sake, in a public place. it's a it's an appalling prospect. >> you mentioned the american picture there. obviously where they have the right to bear arms. and we saw , police arms. and we saw, police officers running towards danger. the bravery that some of those officers showed was extraordinary , obviously, extraordinary, obviously, there's a conversation about whether the police in this country should be armed. what's your thoughts? >> look, i've always thought that it's important in our country to not walk into that or default position. i think we've got very good armed police response units that do an incredible job. and i've seen them myself from my experience as a criminal lawyer. but i think generally arming the police is still something i would resist. i think what what

tends to happen is where you get an armed police force, you then get this arms race and you start to see an even greater increase in the use of firearms amongst criminal gangs. i mean, one of the reasons why knives are used, camilla, is that firearms are not that that easy to obtain, but a truncheon, i mean , a but a truncheon, i mean, a truncheon seems pretty 1980s and, you know, a truncheon against a flick knife in the 19805 against a flick knife in the 1980s is something it don't more police, i think andy marsh of the police federation has said, can we please just give tasers to the officers that want them more tasers? i agree with that. we've done the similar things with prison officers to give them more protective mechanisms . them more protective mechanisms. i think that's got to be right. obviously they've got to be used sensibly, but the police are well used to following guidelines. let's equip them with that type of, weapon or that type of defensive implement in order to save lives. yeah indeed. >> well, amen to that. sir robert rutland, lovely to see you this morning again on a difficult morning for the tories. so thanks for coming out. thank you. in just a minute, i'm going to be speaking to the transport secretary, mark harper, and asking him for his reaction to the conservatives worst election results in 40

years.

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news. now, mark harper, the transport secretary, has been very, very patiently waiting for this interview. he's also the conservative mp for the forest of dean . mr harper, tell me what of dean. mr harper, tell me what you've drawn. the short straw . you've drawn. the short straw. why aren't we seeing richard holden, the party chairman, out this morning? holden, the party chairman, out this morning ? why are you having this morning? why are you having to do his dirty work? doesn't the party chairman need to consider his position? having presided over the worst local election results in over 40 years? >> well, i'm sorry you're disappointed. you've got me, camilla. even though i've been waiting here patiently, as you said. no. look, richard holden was up and down the country with all of our candidates. from. from one end of the country to the other. he was incredibly active. and on our people in the

field also had incredible support from our hard working team at cchq as well. so no, i don't agree with you about that. i think all conservatives now need to get behind the prime minister. as the chairman said in his article this morning and take that message to the country . we see from the analysis that experts have done that the results show that the position is closer than the polls are suggesting. so it's everything is delightful for the next election, and we're absolutely up for that fight. >> just pulling your leg, by the way, it's always delightful to see you on a sunday morning. i just think that richard holden should consider consider his position. i tell you why. because oliver dowden resigned when he presided over much better local election results from this. and it's not just criticism, by the way , of how criticism, by the way, of how the local elections have been managed. let's look at the picture in london. i mean, i've had quite a few people contact me to say how shambolic conservative party headquarters is. management of susan hall's campaign was. is. management of susan hall's campaign was . you've got tory mp campaign was. you've got tory mp

paul scully saying yesterday that the tories had run a, quote, incredibly underwhelming campaign. what's this is not good enough. if >> well look in london, i think susan should be very pleased with the campaign she run. it was much closer than both the polls are suggested and lots of commentators thought she was focusing on the issues that mattered on the doorstep to on transport, on focusing on crime, which is a really important issue in london. but obviously with the national polling situation, as it were, it was a very difficult race. but she was chosen by london conservatives. i think she ran a very good campaign . i worked very closely campaign. i worked very closely with her on a number of issues , with her on a number of issues, and i think she was focused on the issues that mattered. but with the national situation and the polling as it was, it was difficult , but it was a much difficult, but it was a much tighter result than many people had thought at the beginning of the campaign. so all credit to her, i know. >> but because it was much tighter, that makes the kind of lack of enthusiasm behind your

candidate all the worse if you'd actually put some rocket fuel up. susan hall, she might have won. and yet we find out yesterday . i can't quite believe yesterday. i can't quite believe this, but the pm himself didn't actually vote for her in the london mayoral election. why >> well, look, i was just on your point about the campaign. look, i was out with susan on a number of occasions. transport was one of the really important issues in london. i felt as a cabinet minister, i went out and supported her. i was out on the on the doorsteps with her. i was out campaigning on the issues that mattered . so i put a huge that mattered. so i put a huge amount of support into that campaign and she worked incredibly well. so look, i, i, you know, we did we did our best. it was a tough result. it's worth just saying, you know, the last time these seats were fought four years ago, we had the vaccine bounce . those had the vaccine bounce. those were the best set of election results in its 2008. that was a high water mark. these were always going to be difficult results for an incumbent government, but it's always

disappointing to lose hard working conservatives across the country. i'm not going to pretend that that it wasn't disappointing, but the important thing now is we focus on the general election campaign . as general election campaign. as i said, the national vote share the things that the analysts do , the things that the analysts do, show that it's closer than the polls, which means it's all to play polls, which means it's all to play for. and we've got to now set out the choice for the country and continue to focusing on delivering on the country's priorities . priorities. >> all right. but the pm not voting for susan hall in the london mayoral race. i mean, i'm just quoting from the government's own website here that you are allowed to vote if you've got two different addresses in two different council areas, you're allowed to vote in both areas in local council elections , police and council elections, police and crime commissioner election and mayoral elections. so is the prime minister ill informed or could he just not be bothered to support susan hall? >> well, look, the prime minister voted for his candidate in his home in north yorkshire ,

in his home in north yorkshire, a by post, and he was out supporting susan on the campaign trail and absolutely got behind her. and he didn't vote for her, didn't manage to get her over the line in london. he voted in nonh the line in london. he voted in north yorkshire for his . north yorkshire for his. >> he could have voted in london address in north yorkshire . he address in north yorkshire. he could have also voted in london local address in north yorkshire. >> and he was absolutely backing susan. he was out on the campaign trail with her and made it very clear she had his full support, transport secretary sorry, let's just nail this down. >> did he not know? did his team not know that he could also vote in london, or could he just not be bothered ? be bothered? >> i haven't discussed this particular matter with him. i know he voted for by post for his local candidate in north yorkshire at his home address there, and he was out on the campaign trail with susan on a number of occasions and was backing our candidate up and down the country .

down the country. >> okay, so we can at least admit, even though we don't know the reasons, that the idea of the reasons, that the idea of the prime minister not voting for his own london mayoral candidate is a shambles . candidate is a shambles. >> no. he voted. he voted at his home address in north yorkshire for the local candidate. there and he was out on the campaign trail with susan, with our mayoral candidate and with council candidates up and down the country . as you would the country. as you would expect, he's out every week with our hard working mps and our hard working candidates up and down the country , setting out down the country, setting out what we're delivering and what we're focused on delivering, and also setting out the choices that will be in front of the country at the general election. that's what he's focused on doing every day of the week . doing every day of the week. >> that's great. but he and number 10 have made a mistake. they could have voted for susan hall and they didn't. i just want you to accept that, that they've made a really big error there . there. >> well, look, i've set out the position. i haven't i haven't hidden from it. and i made the point that you were trying to

say he wasn't supporting susan, or he was out campaigning for her through the elections and made it very clear she had his full support as he as he did for our candidates up and down the country. he was crisscrossing the united kingdom, campaigning for candidates in every part of the country, as you would expect him to do as leader of the party. >> i can't pin it down. he's crisscrossing the country, but he's not crisscrossing a box on his london mayoral candidates list, which is bizarre, you are saying ? i'm sure that he needs saying? i'm sure that he needs to stick to the plan. there's other conservative colleagues like suella braverman saying that he needs to change course urgently. you must accept that you need to do something very, very differently. if you're going to win back people who are now thinking about voting for reform, not just in locals, but in the general election . in the general election. >> well, look, let me just pick that last point out. first of all, if you look at the election results, what was very clear about it was for conservative former conservative voters, if they vote reform, what they

actually get are labour candidates getting elected. so that's a lesson for the election. and then you get a government which does which does none of the things you want it to do and actually does things you don't want it to do. so that would be my message on reform, on the plan . look, we've set out on the plan. look, we've set out a plan that is about the priorities of the public. so that's about reducing inflation. now that plan is working, inflation is to down 3.1. it was 11% working. prime minister, you're not reducing immigration though. but we have further. but we have further to go on stopping the boats. we have actually reduced the number of people coming to britain illegally by a third over the last year, 711 people came in on wednesday alone to do well. yeah, but you've got to look at it over a reasonable period over a year. we've reduced it by a third at a time when across the european union the number was actually going up. now i accept completely accept there is more to do. we fought really hard to get the rwanda legislation on

the statute book, opposed every step of the way by the labour party, and now that legislation is on the statute book, we've got to get the flights off and have a steady rhythm of them through the rest of the year to act as that deterrent, to stop people coming. the public will judge us on whether that's successful . and so there is more successful. and so there is more work to do. so look, i would say we have made some success on the plan. we've driven down inflation, we've reduced the number of people coming here illegally by a third. and importantly , picking up robert importantly, picking up robert buckland's point, part of our plan is also about reducing nhs waiting lists, showing that success on public services. again, a lot of progress made, but i would accept there is more to do and that's what we've got to do and that's what we've got to focus on through the rest of this year and then show the choice that going for a labour party, which doesn't have a plan to deal with any of those things, would take us in the opposite direction and go back to square one, and that will be what we have to campaign on and get behind the prime minister as he sets out that argument in the rest of this year. >> all right, mark harper, you've been the tory party's

geoff boycott this morning, done a good job. well batted . it's a good job. well batted. it's not been easy for you. so i respect you for having waited for ten minutes for coming on and then giving us some response to the calamity that we've witnessed over the weekend. thank you very much indeed . thank you very much indeed. well, as i mentioned last week, i don't like to blow my own trumpet, but nobody else will, so i may as well. i've been nominated for a tric award for my interview with the legendary broadcaster alastair stewart about his dementia diagnosis. if you didn't see it, you can see it on the gb news website. but what i really want you to do is vote for me and my good morning. good morning, my good, my gbn colleagues nominated at the tric awards. so please visit. listen to this carefully poll dash tric.org.uk. you can get your phone. you can use the code on the screen. you know, it's all very new fangled . you know what very new fangled. you know what to do. just vote for us because the public votes count. and this is an awards ceremony that isn't decided by the establishment, but that gives all of the awards to people that don't really deserve them , and none of the

deserve them, and none of the awards for the people that do. so please do vote. thank you very much. now up next, i'm going to be speaking to award winning writer julia hobsbawm about her latest book, working assumptions, which is described as a, quote, a must read for anybody concerned about the future of work . stay

welcome back to the camilla tominey show on gb news. i'm delighted to be joined now by award winning writer and podcaster julia award winning writer and podcasterjulia hobsbawm. she's in the studio. she's got her new book. let's give it a little plug. working assumptions. can you see that ? those listening on you see that? those listening on the radio, it's a tome which has been described as a must read for anybody concerned about the future of work by karl fry of oxford university and it's really interesting this, julia, because obviously i think people are worried about the march of l, are worried about the march of i, i'm worried about it as a journalist going to have robots writing for me in future on the telegraph. but just in general,

why did you write the book and what's it about? >> well, thank you for having me my first time on gb news. >> oh, a gb news virgin. ladies and gentlemen, welcome. i wrote the book. >> i wrote a book in the pandemic called the nowhere office that said hybrid working was coming . lots of people got was coming. lots of people got very upset about that and said , very upset about that and said, you know, i was doing down the future of work. everybody needed to get back to the office. and i got incredibly gripped by the story of what's happening around work and the workplace, which is just the gift that keeps on giving, actually. and i started writing a column called working assumptions for bloomberg . and assumptions for bloomberg. and then i realised that what people needis then i realised that what people need is more than just the future of the office, because covid happened. you've got large numbers of people out of the workforce , you've got a changed workforce, you've got a changed attitude to the way we live and work at the same time. chatgpt came along and has gone from a million users in five days to

100 million users, and yet nobody completely knows what it is and what it means. and you've got a massive generational shift. so i wanted to write a book that really covered the waterfront of all of the changes that are going on, and there are a lot it's really like that oscar winning movie everything everywhere all at once. and in fact, the book is full of cultural references, because if you turn on your telly or you go to the movies or you listen to a song, you will find people are obsessed by work all the time. >> well, they're talking about work a lot. they're doing work a lot, which obviously takes up a huge proportion of time. i do think it's interesting, the kind of post—covid picture , for of post—covid picture, for instance, even on this channel, you know, the amount of more remote interviews that we're using. in the old days, you had to physically be there, and that's changed. but i mean, back to that point about me as a journalist being worried about the march of ai, should i be worried? should white collar workers be worried about being taken over? >> yeah, you should be worried because traditionally technology was something that affected the

blue collar workers. anybody watching your program now who's wearing overalls for a daily job, knows all about automation and has known for a long time that the robots are coming. interestingly, anybody who is watching your program who works, say, in an operating theatre in medicine , in, in the, in the medicine, in, in the, in the very high scientific fields, they also know about al, but it's the keyboard warriors of white collar work that have been blindsided by the speed at which automated technology and artificial intelligence has come in. >> it's crept up on us, hasn't it? >> it's crept up on you. i mean, my worry isn't just that there's a big washing through of jobs , a big washing through of jobs, and that's disruptive. and i don't think all the jobs are going to go from al. and i'm absolutely not with the tech bros like elon musk , who says, bros like elon musk, who says, you know, in a cavalier way, oh , you know, in a cavalier way, oh, yes. you know, the jobs are going to be taken and that's no

bad thing . everybody's going to bad thing. everybody's going to be on universal basic income. you know, it makes me want to absolutely run screaming from the room. but jobs will be lost. but more importantly, it means that everybody's literally got a digital co—worker that they've got to figure out and understand. and the younger workers may have been growing up more with with technology, the digital natives. but those of us a little bit older, it's another thing to learn . it's another thing to learn. it's another skill set, and it's a problem. it is complicated. it's interesting. >> you mentioned sort of generational divides in work because i was interested in what you write about in the book about this separation, in thinking between , say, thinking between, say, millennials and gen z's thinking between, say, millennials and gen 2's and then boomers and older people in the workplace. i mean, we've seen this play out a lot in culture wars , only having a discussion wars, only having a discussion with somebody about this actually yesterday. and like younger people coming into an industry and wanting to dispense with some of the traditional ways of doing things because they associate it with email , they associate it with email, serialism and colonialism. and this is in the field of dance.

funny enough . but the point is funny enough. but the point is here, i mean, there's a big conflict, isn't there, between younger and older generations and what they believe and how they how they approach work. >> yeah, i think that the generational shifts are as serious for the workplace and for policy around work as generative ai, and that's because there is just a gulf now between the generations working in the workforce, which still include the boomers and generation x, and those i call in the book the amazing generation of millennials and zs and actually alphas in 2026, the generation , of babies are generation, of babies are coming. actually, they're going to turn 16. and so your future cast to something like 2030 and you're really going to have a dominant class of worker that have grown up entirely with social media and the internet , social media and the internet, that sometimes they're called generation glass . and there is

generation glass. and there is a huge different difference in attitudes and in understanding of the way the world works. >> a boomer interpretation is that they're lazier . is that that they're lazier. is that fair, julia? i mean, i don't think they're lazy, although i took enormous pleasure in quoting jodie foster's interview in the book, in which she mocked gen z and, and, you know, even millennials who were not that much older than gen z. >> you know, if i do a lot of corporate advisory work and, and millennial managers are pulling their hair out at how they manage gen z's, for instance, but aren't they, like, very focused on work life balance. >> and i'd like a four day week and i want to work exactly how i want. >> i think it's really important that we don't frame this in the way that work was framed immediately. post pandemic, with even people like your illustrious colleague. yes. mr rees—mogg kind of going get back to the office, you know, lazy gits, kind of thing. i think we're way beyond that. we have to be much more sophisticated, which is what you do with a generation that experienced work in their bedroom on their

laptop, telling them to now come into the office, which is expensive, using social skills, they may not have developed is a different deal to those of us for whom going into the office and hanging out in a team feels great, so we have to understand how things have changed. >> well, also, i just think in terms of sort of elbow grease, there's a perception that people perhaps, i don't know , born perhaps, i don't know, born before 2000, have a different work ethic to those born after. is that unfair? >> oh , it's totally unfair. >> oh, it's totally unfair. i mean, i'm a multiple parent of all those generations. i'm even all those generations. i'm even a grandmother, actually, of a baby alpha. no yes. hashtag young granny. but but but the point is . no, but they don't point is. no, but they don't want to work in the same way. i mean, i think what we're seeing the end of and i think arguably this is actually a positive thing, is the end of the era that says those who go to university get a degree at a posh or ivy league university or god forbid, an mba, they get to rule the world. they get a job

for life. they get to tell the rest of us how to run our lives. and that's all great. that's that track has stopped. so we have to reinvent the world of work . and it is more flexible. work. and it is more flexible. it is more genuinely inclusive of people with different ideas, backgrounds and generations. that's the good news. the bad news is it's really complicated. >> yeah, it is really complicated. but this book can help. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> just show you it. again, working assumptions is here by julia. thank you very much for coming in this morning. you know, my solution to this is just to have a few jobs at once, a portfolio career, so that if one goes wrong, at least you can fall back on the other. julia, i don't know whether that's a good idea or not, but thank you very much and good luck with this. thank you. thank you to all of my guests today, to julia and to the tories that came on after a very, very difficult weekend. enjoy the rest of your bank holidays . enjoy the rest of your bank holidays. i'll be back enjoy the rest of your bank holidays . i'll be back next week holidays. i'll be back next week at 930. but up next it's dame arlene foster.

>> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello and welcome to your gb news forecast, brought to you by the met office. a mixed picture on sunday. sunny spells in the south. cloudier in the north. but where we do see the sunshine it is going to be feeling rather warm. so the best of the sunshine is parts of northern wales, central england and also down towards the south—east of england. cloudier skies persisting across northern ireland, much of scotland, with some outbreaks of rain here. but in the south—west we have got a weather system and that's bringing some more outbreaks of showery outbreaks of rain pushing its way northwards. but where we do see the sunshine, temperatures are going to be on the rise. we're going to see highs of around 18 or possibly up to 20 degrees in the southeast through the rest of the afternoon and evening time, clouds generally moving its way northward to parts of northern wales and also into the

southeast of england, with some heavier outbreaks of rain pushing in here, cloudier conditions still remaining across northern ireland and parts of scotland still with some showery outbreaks of rain across eastern parts. otherwise, temperatures with a lot of cloud around, temperatures still staying a little bit up for the time of year. and then as we go through starting monday morning. cloudy picture for bank holiday monday across southeastern england with heavy outbreaks of rain here. some brighter spells are going to be mixed in with that, but many places are seeing outbreaks of rain or showers, but also some sunny spells. and where you do see the sunshine it is going to be feeling warm with highs of 17 or 18 degrees. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> good morning, and welcome to sunday with not michael portillo are with me. arlene foster. today, my political panel will be discussing the turbulent few days of local and mayoral elections. can sunak survive to the next general election and are labour on course for a majority? we'll discuss all of that very soon. an apple a day keeps the doctor away, and it seems many brits are choosing not to see their gp's anymore. a recent lib dem survey has shown that only 47% of adults have been to see a doctor more than once in this last couple of years, and at that time he had only or rarely seen the same physician, doctor bhasha mukherjee will be giving her diagnosis on all of that. meanwhile over in america, they're tearing themselves apart over the war in gaza , tensions over the war in gaza, tensions have flared up at and they're at an all time high across american university campuses. these past

few weeks,