during pro- palestinian demonstrations which forced some colleges and universities to cancel in person classes. he also acknowledged delays in the federal student aid application process. the hearing is three and a half hours.

[inaudible conversations] the committee on education workforce will come to order. a quorum is present. without objection the chair is authorized to call recess at any time. mr. secretary, i was truly

excited when your named secretary with your background. you know i have told you that. however, you have not lived up to your potential. the educational decline is not without warning. upon your confirmation i issued a press release saying, the teachers union and left-wing special interest groups are keeping our schools closed despite the serious consequences for students academic success and mental health. serious consequences may have been the understatement of the century. since the last time you testified, the national assessment of educational progress released its 2022 math and reading scores. the results were disturbing. reading scores plummeted to the lowest level in the history of

the testing. across all subjects, american k- 12 students saw a steep drop in educational attainment thanks in large part to the biden administration lockdown policies. the negative consequences of learning loss with the this generations future employment and earnings will be devon stated. if i were to rate your tenure on the state of k-12 schools i would give you enough -- and asked. failing scores are not the only negative development in education since our last oversight hearing. over the past seven months colleges across the nation have seen an unprecedented regression in moral and institutional legitimacy as anti-semitism and pro-hamas protests have engulfed campuses. turn on the news and universities such as columbia

and ucla look like unrecognizable war zones. from the beginning i urged a firm hand in dealing with anti- semitism on campus and i have led by example. you on the other hand refused even to say that the from the river to the sea chant is anti- semitic. i saw this as a failure of moral clarity deeming you unfit for public office and call for your resignation. with the outbreak of campus riots i'm even more resolute so i will say it again. you must resign. if i were to rate your time as secretary based on the state of post secondary education i would also give you an f. the final report is based on your tenure as an administrator. again, i will warn of the potential pitfalls of mismanaging programs such as the fast rollout. the

department managed to bungle both. the simplification has been the law for the entirety of your administration. last year was filled with delays and excuses. in march 2023 after months of refusing to communicate a release date, the department announced it would push the implementation of the simplification act back from october 1 to what ended up being december 30, 2023. the october deadline should have come as no surprise. congress had already granted the department an additional year and you still cannot get the job done. then the december 30 soft launch was filled with glitches. prospective college students fought through random crashes and lengthy waiting rooms to submit their completed fafsa

application only to be met with uncertainty. for the applications that did make it through, large percentages contained errors, were unable to be corrected, or both. in some cases they took months to fix. the financial aid administrator surveyed schools just last week found that over 30% of schools have still not even begun to package eight offers thanks to your delays. the delays and uncertainty have crushed students and universities. fafsa completion rates have fallen 30% nationally with declines even higher among low income students. universities are expecting decreased enrollment in the fall. it could be even worse than the pandemic. attending college is one of the most consequential choices some may ever make. for many students with limited means who depend on the fafsa

that choice has been denied. some will inevitably put education on the back burner for life. that is what troubles me the most on this. may 1 should have been college decision day but instead students were still stuck waiting for financial information, paralyzed by your ineptitude. fafsa should have been a top priority. instead, your actions proved time and again that it wasn't. when the department should've been putting time and resources into fafsa it was pouring time and resources into the latest student debt scheme. this latest scheme could cost taxpayers up to $1 trillion. for perspective, these actions are more expensive than all postsecondary education spending before 2020. the higher education act passed

in 1965, yet you are projected to spend more on just the biden student loan debt scheme than all other secretaries spent since 1965 i have completely lost faith in this administration to govern. your radicalism has alienated loan servicers and force the administration to bungle the return to repayment. nine million borrowers missed their first repayment. i'm not sure this administration ever wanted the payment. i think you see it as politically advantageous to kick the can down the road so you did. therefore, if i were to grain your -- grade your tenure as an administrator i would give you an f. on all the broad strokes you have a failing grade. there are plenty of other specific issues to discuss today. the department has failed to protect young women with the title ix rewrite. failed to return to the office

to work in person and failed to pass the 2023 financial audit. i see each of these failures as a result of the original failure that the federal government inserted itself into education in the first place. there are good reasons why the word education does not appear in the constitution. education is done best when it is handled at the local level. the solution is not more of the same which is what the presidents budget represents, but less of what has sidetracked our country's educational system and the department of education itself. as president ronald reagan once famously said, the nine most terrifying words of the english language are i'm from the government and i'm here to help. with that, i yield to the ranking member for an opening statement. >> thank you and good morning

mr. secretary. thank you for being with us today. 70 years ago chief justice earl warren wrote the majority opinion, unanimous opinion of brown be board of education. any child may reasonably be expected denied the opportunity of education such an opportunity the state has undertaken to provide it is a right which must be made available to all on equal terms. the court went on to say that segregation of students by race denies the children of the minority race of an equal education and opportunity because segregated schools are inherently unable. regrettably today we must acknowledge that in 2024, public schools are segregated by race and class as they were in the late 1960s. today we have a chance to hear from the secretary about how the biden and harris

administration is working to fulfill this promise and bolster support for students and teachers while also tackling systemic inequities in our public school system. for example president biden enacted to pass the american rescue plan act without the support of a single republican vote. the largest one-time federal investment in k-12 education in the nation's history. the investment was allocated using the title i a formula meaning that the greatest resources went to the communities with the greatest need. these resources also allowed the school districts to make up for missed time in the classroom, respond to mental and social emotional needs and support educators. the research shows that the federal investments resulted in marked improvement in schoolchildren in chicago, birmingham, nashville and other cities and

counties around the country. additionally, the department of education has also taken historic steps to relieve student borrowers from mountains of unaffordable debt. this administration has forgiven more than $160 billion in student loan debt for 4.6 million borrowers, including some who were duped by their universities, enhancing the income driven repayment plans and public service loan forgiveness program, future borrowers now have a clear path to repayment. i look forward to hearing from the secretary about how the department, what the statuses and getting the free application for federal student aid, the fafsa rollout back on track. as you know the committee has communicated with you our concerns about the impact of the many delays for student college decisions. we have pressed for policies to ensure every student has access

to a quality education. at the same time republicans have prioritized divisive culture war issues and politicized classrooms, pushed legislation and were consumed with who uses which bathroom. moreover, my colleagues frequently speak about the commitment to fighting campus discrimination yet their actions tell a different story. republicans have advocated significant cuts to the department of education office of civil rights funding which would inevitably hinder its ability to investigate and prosecute campus related discrimination claims. unfortunately this seems to be where the colleagues are on the other side of the aisle. we have come to an impasse because complaining about a problem is not a solution. at the end of the day, if we want to reduce rising tensions on college campuses, we need to advance meaningful legislation

to address the problem. passing meaningless resolutions week after week and turning the committee room into a spectacle only seems to have exacerbated the problems instead of defusing them. our students deserve more than political ponds and fundraising schemes. i want to thank you for your testimony. i look forward to what i hope to be a productive discussion. thank you, madam chair. >> thank you. pursuant to committee rolls, all members who wish to insert statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in microsoft word format by 5:00 p.m. 14 days after the date of the hearing which is may 22, 2024. without objection the hearing record will remain open to allow such statements and other extraneous material referenced

during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. i now turn to the introduction of our witness. we have as our witness secretary miguel cardona from the u.s. department of education located in washington, d.c.. we thank you for being here today and look forward to your testimony. i remind the witness that we have read your written statement which will appear in full in the hearing record pursuant to committee rolls and practice, i ask that you limit your oral presentation to a five minute summary of your written statement. i also remind the witness to be aware of his responsibility to provide accurate information to the committee. i now recognize mr. secretary for five minutes. >> thank you.

chairwoman, ranking member, distinguished members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to testify on president biden's fiscal year 2025 to request for the department of education. my purpose here today is to propose a budget that helps protect and support our nations students. to be clear it's not to create a spectacle for the benefit of the media or promote divisions that promote culture wars and political sideshows but do nothing to help our young people succeed. our nations parents and students are looking for us to recognize that we have common ground and build on that by making responsible choices together to invest in education as the foundation for american opportunity. it is a responsible choice to sustain our academic recovery from the impact of the pandemic through $82.4 billion in calculated investments to accelerate learning and success

. it is a responsible choice to invest in a stronger future for all americans by boosting funding to close opportunity and achieve an act gaps in low income communities through title i, support students with disabilities through ide a. support learners and recruit, prepare, retain, and develop great teachers. it is the responsible choice to invest in safer schools. the mental health of our students by making more funding available for school counselors and mental health professionals. it's the responsible choice to give more young people access to the american dream by building more pathways to rewarding careers and opening doors to higher education by improving college affordability, retention, and completion including through free community college and

increased student support. it is the responsible choice to fully honor the caps under the bipartisan fiscal responsibility act as this budget does. let me emphasize. when we get beyond the noise and efforts by self decree division, there is so much common ground about what matters most for our nations students. such as getting all students to read by third grade. dividing mental health support in the midst of a youth mental health crisis. opening up college and career pathways so students have more options for rewarding lives and careers and making higher education more affordable and more accessible for those who choose that path. i know that we have common ground when it comes to our horror at the appalling anti-

semitism we are seeing on some college campuses. as the president said last week there should be no place on any campus, no place in america for symmetry -- anti-semitism or threats of violence. there is no place for hate speech. the biden and harris administration including the department of education is taking action each and every day to help ensure that schools and colleges are free from discrimination and safer jewish students and all students and will continue to do so. make no mistake. anti-semitism is discrimination and is prohibited by title vi of the civil rights act of 1964. dissent is essential to democracy. will it must never lead to disorder or denying the rights of others so they may finish their college education.

hate has no place on college campuses. every student deserves to learn in an environment where they feel free to be themselves without discrimination or fear for their safety. that is why the budget provides for more resources for the office of civil rights to continuance strong response. i hope to work with you in partnership and constructive dialogue. we can raise the bar for our students and we can do it together. i look forward to working with you to do so. thank you. >> thank you, mr. secretary. under committee role nine we will now question the witness under the five-minute role. i ask members to keep your questions succinct so the witness has time to answer. i now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning. mr. secretary, you have been proudly volunteering the taxpayers to take on the student loan debt of largely wealthy college graduates. do you believe the students who

spend their time in college calling for the destruction of an ethnic religious group or spend their time preventing students of perfect -- particular ethnic religious groups from walking freely deserve to have their education paid for by taxpayers? >> i could not your you that well but if you are making reference to the student debt relief plan we have done i am really proud of the work we are doing to provide a lifeline for students who chose to go to college and are living -- >> i'm talking about the students who are being anti- semitic and stopping jewish students from being able to go to class and threatening them. do you want the taxpayers to pay their loans off? >> i believe that students that are breaking the law and are disrupting the educational environment should be held to

account. i believe it is important that all students have access to their higher education classes and graduation. >> will you commit to ensuring that no student that has harassed other students or prevented other students from going to class or breaking laws receives any form of student loan forgiveness. >> we are committed to making sure campuses are safe. i condemn any form of hate or any violence on campus. i have spoken to students and educators who have experienced that. >> we would like you to follow through on those who do break the law and make sure they do not receive student loan forgiveness. mr. secretary, the coo at fsa needs to have a deep and fast lawn -- knowledge of how loan operations were given that fsa is to factor the largest consumer bank in the country. indeed, the performance-based organization statute contemplates high expectations of the coo. the coo needs to be

an operational and lending expert and have a keen understanding of massive lending operations. do you commit to finding a replacement that has real-world experience leading a massive lending operation so we can be assured the financial interest of the taxpayers are protected. >> thank you for the question. i'm committed to making sure we have a chief operating officer with experience. i look forward to working with you on the process to select. >> thank you. in a similar vein i have been asking for the performance bonus of the coo and fy 23 for senior fsa staff including the coo. this has been met with delay after delay after delay. this should not be hard as these bonuses are required to be made public. if i do not receive the information requested by noon

on the 14th you will be facing a subpoena. as i mentioned earlier, fsa is a performance- based organization and have the ability to award bonuses to select of ploys -- employees including the chief operating officer. did the errors that were found in fy 2022 and fy 2023 and conducting the dip -- department financial audits result in a reduction or elimination to bonuses paid to senior staff. simple question yes or no. >> thank you for the question. i take responding to your request very seriously and will continue to share information with you. i will make sure that we are communicating on your team for a timeline for providing you that information. >> did the audit have an impact on the bonuses? yes or no? >> within the communication i will make sure the answer to your question is there. i can tell you that we take the

audit information that we receive very seriously. >> what are the practical consequences of the department's failure to obtain a clean audit for each of the last two years? >> we recognize working with our auditors and have gotten disclaimers of opinions of the past. we are continuing to work with auditors to ensure the information they provide us is used as we continue to improve practices every year. >> on march 6 i transmitted a letter to you voicing my concerns about the departments 16% occupancy rate. it's been two months since i wrote to you and 3 1/2 months since the chief of staff requested you and other federal department leaders submit a return to office action plan. will you commit today to provide the information and documents that are requested no later than may 17.

>> i absolutely commit to providing you that information as quickly as possible. i hope before may 17. i know that we have increased those numbers significantly. i am proud of the progress we are making. >> thank you i recognize mr. courtney for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairwoman and secretary, thank you for your service and your presence here today. last friday the u.s. department of labor issued the monthly jobs report showing that the u.s. economy added 175,000 new jobs defying all of the skeptics and naysayers. we are now at a place where for 27 consecutive months the u.s. unemployment rate has been below 4%. that has never happened in the history of this country. even with those numbers we still have 8.5 million job

openings. one of the things i think is so unique about your life experience and what you bring to the job is that you are a graduate of a career and technical school in connecticut who today along with career technical schools all over the country are on fire in terms of making sure that people are able to take advantage of these record number of job openings. one of your initiatives at the department of education has been the career connected high school program which again is about getting not just trade schools but comprehensive high schools into the act as far as connecting young people to the right skills and closing the skills gap. can you talk about progress with that program? i have certainly seen it in my district. >> thank you very much. i talk about common ground in my remarks.

this is something we should really be coming together. for far too long in this country we've had a four year college or bust mentality that i believe has underserved our students, communities and country. i am unapologetically in support of making sure that all of our high schools not just technical schools have a pathway program for students to explore careers, apprenticeships, internships, toolkit -- dual credit programs they can get credentials they need to pursue a four year degree or go into the workforce or get a credential for a high school, high paying career. we are committed to that at the department of education. i office in talk about evolution of our schools. the career connected learning grant which is something we are proposing a $57 million increase would do just that.

i have visited schools that have done a really good job. k-12 schools that are connected with two year colleges and often times four year colleges and industry and labor partners for better access earlier to the trades and careers that exist. this is something i believe there's a lot of common ground on. the budget reflects interest in that and we are committed to supporting it. >> i completely agree. i visited a high school in thompson, connecticut. again, because of the career pathways approach which your program encourages employers are getting into the game for helping fund particularly in the healthcare sector. these job openings are probably one of the most acute shortfalls that exist. these kids are getting a chance to get certified along with their diploma when they graduate from high school.

some will go right into work. others will go to nursing programs. it's not an either/or for higher education or going into the workforce. either way you are getting a meaningful stimulus to students in terms of showing up for school, which again helps attendance which is something we should be encouraging. for the last minute i want to talk about the fact that when he took office the department of education was under numerous court orders for failing to obey the law. the prior administration had denied 98% of the applications for loan discharge under the program which was created with a bipartisan vote in the house in 2007. i was there. remember when president bush signed the into law. as we are going back into recovery mode, we talk about that and the progress you have

made. >> thank you for that question. broadly speaking, the public service loan forgiveness program was one of the programs that was not being implemented the way it was intended to be. 7000 people got it in the last administration. 98% denial rate. in three years we have provided 875,000 borrowers. these are teachers, nurses, veterans with almost $62 billion in debt relief. i will bring attention to a teacher that i spoke to who took out a loan for $30,000 and ended up having to pay $60,000 because of interest. she received debt relief and is now able to purchase a home. these are the stories that are happening. >> because you are obeying the law. i yield back. >> thank you. mr. wilson you are recognized for five minutes. >> mr. secretary, my wife is a teacher. i have such a high regard for the profession.

i believe in local elected school boards. i did not favor the creation of the department of education. we have a great superintendent in my home state of south carolina. sending it back to elected school boards is what should be done. every school board is different. communities are different in the school districts of the federal government cannot possibly understand or address the issues properly. with that in mind, another issue you just referenced with section 117 of the higher education act requires institutions to disclose semi annually to the u.s. department of education any gifts received and any contracts of a foreign source that alone or combined value $250,000 or more. your administration has decided to remove this section 117 enforcement to the federal

student office. it is already overworked. what is the status of these reports? this is really critical because we have dictatorships today whether it be more criminal put nor the chinese communist party. we know the regime and to ron -- tehran trying to destroy our country. so what is being done to try to stop any disinformation >> happy teacher appreciation week to your wife and all the teachers across the country section 117 is very important. we reported close to 39,000 foreign gifts worth $21 billion already. we believe transparency is critical and having it move under fsa allows us to do that

more succinctly. as we know we are a member of the fbi counterintelligence task force. we communicate regularly to ensure that law enforcement investigation arms have the information that we have. the system is working well and i agree that we need to protect our schools. >> you don't have to do this right now but a question i would like for the record, is what is the status of maintaining these reports? this is critically important. it is said yale, stanford, and harvard have countless examples of raging anti-semitism on campus. they also have investigations under the investigation. again, it looks like they

cannot impact the american people as they try to promote their totalitarian authoritarian view of the world. we have to be prepared. you coordinating the investigation with the open title six investigations, -- >> thank you for that question. as you know we have a significant increase in these investigations since october 7 attacks on over 100 new cases which is why we are asking for an increase to make sure we have enough investigators for these cases. we take into account depending on the investigation request, we take into account many different factors. while not speaking generically, i can tell you that the office for civil rights does take into account several factors when requests come in for investigation. >> i am very concerned. the sdi -- fbi director has

indicated that attacks are imminent across the country and can be facilitated by not acting against these anti- semites. from the river to the sea, that is a code for murder of the people of israel. we know that the hamas covenant provides section 7 that you chase every jew until you find the last jew behind a rock . -- let me restate and make clear because all of god's children should know. that is that section 7 of the hamas covenant calls for chasing every jew behind a rock or tree until you find the last jew

behind a rock and kill him. it should be known by all americans that this should not be misunderstood. with that i yield back. >> thank you. >> thank you, madam chair. secretary cardona, welcome. thank you for your service. i appreciate it. thank you for continuing the pl ss student loan program. you have been giving testimony on mental health for schools. as you know, may is mental health awareness month which provides an opportunity to raise awareness of the importance of access to mental health services especially for students and cool -- school communities. every month we raise mental

health concerns. i have heard first hand from parents, teachers administrators and students themselves concern for their well-being and i share this concern. one transformational step towards addressing this growing need was the bipartisan safer communities act. may i ask you, mr. secretary, can you tell me the status of different programs , of grant program school based mental health services? how do these programs help to meet the mental health needs of today's students. >> you are absolutely right. we are in a youth mental health crisis.

if we go back to the schools we had in 2019 we are failing our children and need to do better. i am proud that the bipartisan safer communities act provided and $2 billion a mental health support for staff, for stronger connections to help ensure that school safety plans are appropriate and up to date. those dollars have made a significant difference. we've seen a 40% increase during that time of school social worker availability. we've seen close to 30% more school nurses available to students and schools. it is sad to hear that we have normalized schools not having nurses and we have to do better. the current budget asks for $40 million in mental health support for schools knowing that students are six times more likely to access mental health support if they are provided in our schools work we are proud of that work and ask

you to support that. >> thank you very much. mr. secretary, an item that looms large in my district. the department implementation of the fafsa simplification has regrettably created uncertainties for students in my district. they have faced numerous obstacles through the application cycle. it must have been when they were designing and engineering the system because you kept the one place in the united states out of the system. my district. the only place in the united states that cannot access the fafsa unless they declare themselves as performers --

foreign students. >> the issue remains, you have provided a workaround, but i hope -- i know this is unacceptable even for you. can you tell me what the department needs to ensure the application process for the next cycle? what would you do differently? >> thank you very much. i can assure you we will follow up to make sure the students you represent get the best support and make sure they have what they need. let me just tell you, 30 years ago i did not fill it out. it was an intimidating process. i did not want to give it to my parents to fill it out. i knew that the system is broken. when i filled it out for my son it was an hour long process. i can see why we are hovering around 60% completion rate before the simplification. rolling out the plan has been a challenge. >> it is 100% in my district. no student can complete the

application. i understand it's one of the items of outstanding issues. i am just asking. can i please have your commitment this will be resolved before the next school year. >> absolutely. thank you very much for your service. this will be my last time before you on this panel hearing but i know you will be back. thank you. >> thank you. mr. thompson, you are recognized. >> thank you. secretary, a lot of my questions have to do with learning. as you know i'm a strong advocate for career technical education york i am immensely proud of these programs through the country but especially those in my district like these secondary programs i had the privilege of visiting a few weeks ago.

were you aware that the overall high school graduation rate around the country is 87%, secondary cte programs graduate at least 96% of their students according to the budget justification for fiscal year 2025. >> yes. >> are you aware that postsecondary programs on average have higher completion and placement rates than non-ct and secondary programs? as you know they gain individuals and in demand sectors. the most recent program nearly 1.8 million post secondary cte concentrators. over a quarter of those enrolled in ct programs within the health science cluster. we are keenly aware of the shortage of workers through the country. do you agree that ct programs particularly in the wake of the pandemic have aligned with local labor markets, responded

to employers and met global demands. >> yes. >> i know you have visited a number of programs in your time of secretary. do you agree that the expansion of programs have been a major success? >> i believe that including ct is where we need to go and has been successful to get states to look at it differently. >> when congress passed perkins with unanimous support of the chambers, we included language stipulating the department of education may only issue regulations to the extent, quote, passed with unanimous support in both chambers, we included language to be leading that the department of education the only issue regulations to the extent, quote, the extent necessary to administer and ensure compliance with the specific requirements,", of the

law. perkins five has been successful for both years and both of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle have -- on students. but with this in mind, what exactly is your department planning to regulate regarding perkins v and why is this administration deciding it's critical to do so at this particular time, despite the law having been implemented successfully for six years and states currently submitting new, four year plans this month? >> thank you for the question, congressman. i agree with you wholeheartedly that earning while you learn is not only good for students to stay engaged, but it's better pedagogy, and students learn better. i visited across the country, programs that, hearing from students directly, i feel like they have an opportunity to be successful. so i'm totally agree with you. this is one of those areas where we feel we have a lot of ground. as a former principal, commissioner of education, i think the perkins is

underutilized. i think we need to do a better job, making that the rule, not the exception that we provide pathways for students and i look forward to working with you on how we can do that and because i know we have common ground, we can move the needle on this and make sure that all stool -- schools take advantage of that. >> and i appreciate that wholeheartedly, but your department has perkins regulation on the regulatory agenda with a noticeable proposal to be issued in august of this year. can you explain what aspect of the law your department has suddenly not able to administer after six years of successful enactment and having never issued regulations on perkins prior? >> thank you. so again, this process of making sure the perkins grant is being utilized for what the intention was, and opening access to earn to learn programs and apprenticeships is more readily available is what we i think collaboratively want to do across the country.

we believe that we have an opportunity here to make sure that the perkins grant does that. unfortunately, in many districts, is regulated to very small programming and it doesn't really touch the mainstream programming of our high schools so the goal here is really to get to what you and i are both agreeing is necessary for our country which is more access to career and technical education programs. >> it will soon be time for reauthorization so i would encourage any thoughts that the department may have on aspects of the law that can be updated based on the six years of implementation feedback from ct programs, as it seems you all do will, and i would hope you'll provide these recommendations to the committee so they can be considered on that legislative process. >> thank you. >> so thank you. >> thank you, mr. thompson. you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. and thank you, secretary cardona. i want to join my cte -- a priority. also, support so many of the budget priorities including

title i, i.d.a. , you even have a demonstration program to incentivize high- quality public preschools, really very much appreciate that. i also want to say thank you to the department for the work that you've done updating the title ix rule. the updated rule is going to better protect and empower students and employees who are victimized by discrimination, including lgbtq individuals who have often been excluded from protection in the past. thank you for that work. i also appreciate the departments -- as student loan repayments resume following the covid cause. as of january, the share of borrowers making them return to the same repayment level of 2020, prior to the pandemic, however, i also remain concerned about vulnerable

borrowers who may be at risk at default or delinquency. so i reintroduce my simple act of streamlining income driven management payments to automatically -- and income driven borrowers and income driven repayment plans. mr. secretary, can you please talk about what steps the department is taking to help borrowers, as they restart payments, including committee getting with borrowers about the repayment options, and also, connected with that, we've heard some allegations that loan forgiveness is essentially a free ride for students? would you please sort of in general numbers, what percentage of borrowers who qualify for loan forgiveness have actually been making payments on their loans? >> thank you for that question. just want to preface this by saying we have a broken higher education system. everything we have done from day one is intended to make higher education affordable and more accessible. from providing debt relief that was passed in a bipartisan fashion here to going after institutions that are taking advantage of first-generation students, we introduce the safe

plan, which is an affordable income -- often times it's interest that cause people to default. we must remember that we've had over million people going into default every year and we are fixing that. even the better fafsa, which is , as frustrating and as challenging as it's been, and i apologize to the students and families that have had to deal with delays. i know how frustrating that is. this is all intended to fix a system that for too long, has kept people out. with regard to repayment, we had the fresh start program, which allows folks to get back on without hurting their credit. i mentioned the safe program, which allows you to pay, based on your income. we have teachers, i mentioned

before, teachers who are starting salary at $38,000 a year, having to pay $700 a month on their old loan plans. but if they sign up for s.a.f.e., it's going to be more affordable. specifically, with regard to your question, i would love to have my team get back to you on that but i can tell you right now, the folks who are, and i would not call it a scheme, i would call it a lifetime -- lifeline. for millions of americans were trying to get back on the fee, we are proud that we are helping them getting back on their feet but we are opening the door to higher education. >> trying to get another question in but you are absolutely right. the people who have had their bounce forgiven actually owed more than they borrowed originally. so just on fafsa, we appreciate your apology, but it has really been struggling, our families have really been struggling. we know that the number of high school seniors who have completed the form is down significantly, particularly with committees -- communities

of color. how are you informing students and families about the process? do you have any strategies to quickly increase fafsa deletion? especially as many high school students lack access to counselors? >> sure. think the question. giving you a quick update. we have over 9 million processed applications. if a student applies today and we are encouraging students to fill it out, if you apply today by friday, the colleges will have the information. two thirds of the colleges have communicated with us that letters have gone out already. the system, while delayed, is working, we have a strategy, a nationwide strategy to get students to fill it out. we are working with superintendents, teachers, school principals, ymcas, boys and girls club, to have an all hands on deck approach, we just used, we have moved to $50 million to help accelerate that process to make sure that we are giving students and families the support that really need. >> and are you seeing the applications increase with that push? >> sure. keep up that work. >> thank you. mr. wahlberg, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairwoman, and thank you, secretary, for being here.

the title of this hearing is examining the policies and priorities, and i have to say, deeply concerned about how the department is choosing to prioritize its efforts. the department has since 2020 two prepare for the new fafsa rollout, get the political leadership shows it spent its time canceling -- rewriting title ix, and i would say to the detriment and endangerment of female athletes and females in general, and making it harder for proprietary schools to exist, schools that are preparing individuals for real- world jobs with tremendous success. and now we are witnessing an explosion of anti-semitic incidents on college campuses and i'm concerned the department is not living up to its obligation of upholding title vi of the civil rights act. so, secretary cardona, as of this morning, the department of

education's website listed 145 open investigations based on shared ancestry under title vi of the civil rights act. on average, let me ask this question. on average, how long does it take the office of civil rights to conclude title vi shared ancestry investigations on average? >> thank you. so the anti-semitism and shared ancestry cases have in greece. we've had over 100 since the attacks on october 7th. >> hundred 55 as this morning. >> but just since october 7th, on average, is hard given average because every case is different but roughly 6 to 8 months. >> currently, how many investigators does the

department of education have on columbia's campus? >> i can't comment specifically on one case, but i can tell you that we have investigators looking into the cases that we have open, which is why, sir, we are asking for an increase. we have approximately 60 less investigators than we did in 2009 and triple the number of cases. >> that it ought to be easy to tell me how many investigators you have on columbia's campus, on ucla's campus, on george washington's campus. >> i'm sure you know i can't speak on open capos -- cases. what we are doing is we are taking these very -- and we are moving as quickly as we can. your support of our budget proposal, sir, would help us move that along. >> let me go this direction then. how many investigations as the department closed and how many of those investigations have resulted in resolutions and policy changes? we can't comment on the message that are open. how many were closed? >> there have been two cases that have been closed around

anti-semitism. >> two cases? >> correct. >> and we are vigorously attending to open cases now. as you know, when congress passed this regulation here, this law, we have to make sure that we negotiate with universities on a compliance and how they are going to address the issue. >> as i understand it, the office of civil rights case processing manual indicates that the office of civil rights is the authority to launch its own investigations. it can launch that with your own decision-making process. you don't have to wait for specific complaints. have you launched any proactive investigations into anti- semitism? >> what i can tell you is as recently as this morning we have provided guidance to all colleges, not just the ones where we might have issues. so yet, friday, isaac communication to over 5000 university leaders come of this morning, we have a letter. >> so you haven't launched any investigations. >> we have, as i said earlier,

i hundred 45 open cases, which are woefully understaffed to handle the existing cases and i'm asking for a budget increase that we can continue to get to this cases, sir. >> let me put it this way. will you commit to -- within the next 30 days? >> we have a process where we are providing information to campuses. we have done more in the last six or seven months than the previous administration. >> it's not working. it's not working. >> if you fund us, sir. >> i appreciate the fact of the university of michigan did not negotiate, ended up going on with their commencement. speaking broccoli here -- poor oakley here parochial really here. the opportunity that you have to launch these reviews, you have solely. it doesn't take congress or anyone else to ask you. i certainly hope you'll make this a priority because it's

for the future and present of students and universities and colleges under your priorities supervision. i yield back. >> thank you, mr. walberg. >> i have a question for my colleague. is a question, mr. walberg. your concern for the office of civil rights is well taken. would you support a supplemental appropriation and authorization to fund the office of civil rights? >> i think we have, -- >> i yield for questions. yes or no. >> we have a secretary here. >> mr. walberg. i asked you -- >> i would suggest you ask a question. >> on majority sigh, continue try to lower and decrease the funding for office of civil rights and that, as a secretary, you do more if you had more money. is that right? >> yes. >> thank you. mr. secretary, welcome. can you describe the newly finalized timeline rule, what

it does, and why your department felt it was important to create a? >> thank you for that question. for us, it was really important to make sure that we are being very explicit about protecting students. it's about keeping our students safe in school. it strengthens protections for students and sex based harassment, empowers families and students, and requires them -- it doesn't require multiple incidents for a school to respond. >> great. well, thank you. this role represents the most conference of expensive -- expansion of title ix. it specifically bolden's -- but all students are entitled to participate in the educational programs and activities free from all forms of sex this cremation. a lack of exposing protection and enforcement powers have long disputed many -- excluded many women, lgbtq, pregnant, and parenting students from the full freedom to pursue and -- a quality education. so mr. secretary, how will this

rule impact students? >> thank you. you mentioned pregnant students. historically, there have been cases where students who are pregnant were encouraged to leave school or not. accommodations not be made. this protects them. in the past, we've had students who have been afraid to come forward after experiencing sexual violence because the process put them out there in a way that they were vulnerable to more attacks. so what we have done is make the provisions now safer for students to come forward and protect students who have been marginalized or under attack in our country, including lgbtq i students. >> is it fair to say this will protect -- at least one state governor has suggested that his state will simply not follow the rule republicans claim that the rule interpretation of discrimination infringes on a

woman's rights. mr. cardona, is that true? >> that is not true. it does not infringe on rights. it protects more students. >> how is such blatant disregard for a rule put the educational program of such a state in jeopardy? >> federal rules trump estate rules and is unacceptable for leaders to pick and choose which students they choose to protect. that's unacceptable. >> so is unacceptable for them to say they're only going to protect some students but not all students. and you take your role as secretary of education very seriously to make sure that all students have the right to pursue education. >> absolute. >> what tools of implementation has they offered -- and to ensure that they are in compliance successfully? more so with this than any other rule we rolled out. >> we want to support schools in the implementation of this.

mr. secretary, thank you. currently, 83% of the lgbtq+ students face victimization at schools, including bullying and harassment and assault. i would the new rule impact lgbtq students? >> provides protections for the students to have access to programming that all other students will have and prevents schools from discriminating on them because they are lgbtq. >> is it accurate to say a lack of protections could result in a higher rate of absenteeism? >> absolutely. >> well, thank you. as you may be aware, the california riverside, which i represent, became the first school in the university of california system to reach a peaceful resolution with student protesters. students had set up in a minute on monday, april 29th, following negotiations between the college administration and the leadership of the protest, the encampments was dissolved peacefully by that friday that same week without a single arrest. uc riverside -- announce the terms of the agreement in a

letter to the ucr community, along with a list of frequently asked questions about to -- about the terms. i'm thrilled that they are leading by example. secretary cardona, is there anything we might be able to take away from this example? >> yes, thank you. it's critically important that college leaders engage in communication and model by discussing with students how to get to a peaceful resolution. they should preserve the safety on campus and make sure that students are able to go to class without fear. >> i'm sorry, my time is up. i yield back. >> thank you, mr. grossman, you are recognized for five minutes. >> thank you. one of my colleagues had a question on public service loan forgiveness, and you had felt the program was broken because it was, quote, not being implanted the way you and congress intended. by the same logic, you admit that you broke the fafsa, which congress intended to be --

>> we yes, we have had significant delays that we are working tirelessly to implement correctly. >> thank you. >> across the u.s., the number of students who have successfully submitted the fafsa was down 29% from this time last year. has the department owned up and taken responsibly, should any, or i should say she should any employee, political or otherwise, lose her job over the fafsa rule out? >> so let me just clarify, sir the difference is less, we are about 15% reduce the number from 30% to 15%, given our nationwide strategy that we are using, so we are seeing over 9 million students apply the information being processed and students are receiving letters. just wanted to give you that update. >> okay.

i don't want to chastise anybody, was there any consequence for the -- >> thank you for that question. >> we take this very seriously and it's concerning to us that there were delays and yes, there will be opportunities for not only accountability but restructure to make sure this doesn't happen again. as a parent of a high school senior and a student in college, i know how important this is for our families and we are committed to getting this right and making sure we open doors to ask as a higher education for more students across the country. >> wisconsin has an impressive tax-cut system and more and more people are going there all the time. as opposed to our traditional university. these colleges with flexible, scheduling options. these are popular among the students. however, due to the obvious inefficiencies within your department, numerous students interested in summer courses this year are unable to access

timely financial aid. during my conversations with my local tech schools, in my district, they reveal a lack of guidance from the department of education on how to proceed and advise students. can you offer immediate guidance to these institutions? >> absolutely. committed to working with you in those institutions to given the need and if necessary, ensure that we are funding those clinics for this students in the community. one thing i want to share, serve, is in wisconsin, there's a 61% completion rate prior to the simplification. together, we are going to do better than that. more students deserve an opportunity to access fafsa and achieve their goals through higher education. >> okay. one of the major goals of president biden has been some of the student loan forgiveness . probably, when i get back in my district, that's one of the major topics. of course, the topic is brought up by people who have paid their student loans. it's not unusual for people to

say, do two jobs at one time. they are going to get that, clear the decks, get the loan paid off. and after, maybe the loan is paid off in four or five years, working extra hard, all of a sudden, they find out that president biden is looking, you would've forgiven him on his own. what would you like me to say to my constituents who have gone through, hardship or maybe they just spend less money on other junk and paid off their student loans that way? what would you say to those folks? >> thank you, congressman. look, i'm one of those people who paid off my loans and i'm recognizing now, as secretary that over million people go into default. what i would say to those folks is we are fixing a broken system

that will allow more access, better return on investment for higher education. so we are fixing broken policies to make it, this is not something that will need to happen every five years. we are addressing it in different ways. >> i will agree with you there. what i'm saying in the past, broken or not, they are people who paid off their loans, maybe even pay them off prematurely because they didn't like being in debt. okay, maybe they work extra hard, maybe they gave up other things, but they pay them off early and now they feel like suckers for being responsible. how would you respond to that individual person? if i ran into a guy or a parent of somebody who says, you know, my son worked two jobs, he paid off his loan, why in the world of these other people getting it paid off for nothing? >> i think it's important to recognize where we are right now. a similar case could be made for people who receive -- and got debt forgiveness for small businesses. they were given help at a time when it was tough. right now, the higher education loan system is broken, we've introduced this plan and quite frankly, people going into default on their community doesn't help the local economy.

for the teacher that i spoke to who is now able to buy a home, that's helping the community, and if you look at our programs, its public servants. it's people who are defrauded by the colleges. so we are taking an interest off of loan that have gone on for over 20 years. >> thank you. that wasn't really an answer to my question, but thanks. >> thank you, mr. grossman. dr. adams, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair and ranking members. and thank you. thank you for your leadership. thank you for being here and certainly, i appreciate your visits in my district. we would love to have you come back. i'm just reintroducing -- i guess we are calling it reigniting, we are reigniting it, which attempts to codify some of the same efforts and the presidents budget proposal requested an increase for the msi's and other underserved

communities. these institutions of course to play a vital role in educating this country's use, especially as higher education grapples with ongoing attacks to diversity, inclusion -- so you speak briefly with the work of the department is undertaking to ensure that sufficient funds are -- who have title iii or title v designations under the higher education? >> thank you very much for that question and i enjoyed visiting your district and i have to tell you, in my visits to hbc you, jackson state, louis state, you know, i always speak of the black excellence that i see there. the entrepreneurship and the sense of punching above your weight, as hbc you as. but i also have heard from hbc you -- decades of underinvestment have put us behind the eight ball. so i'm proud that the president

and his budget has also, in an additional -- of 93 million but also hundred million dollars to expand research and development. they need the labs to be able to compete for the contracts. so, you know, we recognize, because we work closely with them, the additional need that they have and how they are working really hard to make it happen so this budget does reflect the conversations and the work that we have seen. >> thank you very much. i just returned from oklahoma to visit langston university and the commencement there. and since january of this year, roughly one institution per week on average has announced its closure or intent to merge, follow include teachers, many students struggle to continue their higher education journey. one study shows that fewer than half of students -- have closed , transferred to other institutions and of those students, fewer than half end up receiving their degrees.

i had a situation in my district that when i first came to congress much, but how has the department enhanced its oversight of institutions at risk of closure since the start of the biden administration, and can you share more about the efforts to improve the closed school discharge process to support a borrower whose institution specifically have closed? >> thank you for that. we have done a lot there. we've seen students who were left out in the cold and left with debt and no degree. no earning potential to pay off that debt. so we are acutely aware that this is a challenge. we worked closely with universities on communication strategies. holding them accountable for recouping where that's possible and we are tightening up our oversight, especially if these are institutions that have historically taken advantage of students. one last thing, and i think

it's really appropriate. we are also working very closely and i remember having -- and my office of secretary to make sure that credits transfer. we've help those students land well in another institution. >> okay. great. so the federal pell grant program is the cornerstone of federal student aid. and it has expanded access to millions of low income students since its inception. can you share a little bit more about the economic significance of the pell grant program? >> absolutely. for many students, it is that opportunity, it is that door to higher education. we know that college graduates on average make $1 million over the course of their career, more than high school students. so we recognize the importance of pell. they have been pushing for an increase of pell and a $900 increase has already been pushed for and we recognize that it's up to like $7400 for a

student per year. that is significant. we are going to continue push for that. we are going to continue to supply the process, make sure it works for our students. >> in terms of the programmatic cuts and the harm to future pell grant recipients, can you speak briefly about that? >> can you repeat the last one? >> the cuts, the programmatic cuts that harm current pell programs. >> well, the implementation of not only better fafsa, but returned to repayment, the usgs servicing took place as last year with flat funding last year. we are requesting additional -- so we can do a better job delivering for the american people. >> thank you so much. madam chair, and you'll back my time. >> thank you. i would like to recognize mr. allen. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and secretary, five minutes, we have to get this pretty quick. you continue to hear a lot of frustration with your department of education has neglected its congressional mandated priorities for a

partisan political agenda. i've heard from constituents in colleges in my district in georgia and who have been let down by the departments inability to meet fafsa's deadlines. we have not had all hands on deck. instead, you march forward these past few months, and using these resources that propose another set of time- consuming regulations. parents, universities, -- teachers, were not happy. the cost for escalating has experienced about bad behavior in this meeting today. very deeply divided country. and i know debt is a problem. but, you know, how do you explain to young people that they owe $100,000 the day they are born in this country? $100,000 the day they are born. what shot have they got? do you

believe it was in the immediate best interest of students and families to assign department staff to your negotiating priorities since january? >> the negotiated rulemaking process does require staff and we do believe -- >> that the yes. >> we are fixing a broken system, sir. >> districts -- post secondary education for all types of students, including helping adults connect to credential programs in demand fields such as cybersecurity and many technology careers or economy -- do you support allowing students to have access to distance education that is a flexible option for working students? >> i do recognize that online institutions -- >> okay. you believe that colleges of all size should be ale to provide distance education programs that meet the standards of the students in the workforce? >> i could hear your -- i could

not hear your question, i was responding to the last question. >> do you think that they -- meet the needs of the students of the workforce. >> if they can do it in a high- quality way, i would not make a blanket statement that all school needed. >> so why has -- enrolled more than 500 students in a distance education program from being authorized by a state through a -- agreement. >> we recognize the importance of giving students an opportunity to have online learning and even with institutions that are not in their stay, but we want to make sure we are doing is make sure we are protecting students also in of a school closes or if there's a challenge with their program, that they would be protected from paying loans and an education that they didn't receive. >> with all due respect, let me tell you what this proposal would do. georgia tech offers one of the lowest cost online master

programs in the country. prestigious university in my state. less than 10,000 -- for cybersecurity, computer science, and data analytics careers. georgia leads the nation in development of cyber talent in research with 10 of our colleges and university is focused on cyber. u.s. army cyber command has -- and professional degrees the should not be stopped by arbitrary regulations that will only stifle cost-effective education. why is 500 and magic number -- the magic number? did you believe that 501 students are somehow not worthy of an innovative approval process and they must jump through more burdensome hoops to be offered? >> i agree with you. georgia has some amazing institutions and i want to make sure i work with you and my team works with you to identify the concerns there and work with you to make sure the georgia schools have the opportunities. >> mr. secretary avenue about a minute less -- i have about a minute left, i have to move on.

10 to 15 billion over the next decade because the colleges will raise tuition rates since they know taxpayers will forgive loans as a result of your student loan agenda. some -- so, mr. secretary, yes or no, are you still committed to making hard-working georgians with no student loan debt pay for the student loans of terrorist supporting columbia university students who have over 100,000 in debt? >> we are committed to fixing a broken higher education systems are, we get a lot further if we work together to make sure that the students in your district can benefit from it. >> well, the campuses have been thrown into chaos, america is waking up as a result of radical progressive agenda. americans don't like it. this includes radical debt cancellation and i yield back. >> i would like to now recognize -- >> thank you, mr. chairman. welcome, secretary cardona.

thank you for your dedication to our students throughout your life and here in this position. since taking office, the biden administration has worked to raise the burden of student debt. this includes canceling debt for 876,000 people, including teachers and firefighters through the public service loan forgiveness program. it includes canceling debt for homeless to million -- almost 1 million people through income driven repayment, and almost 6 million for defrauded students and just last week, students were scanned by the now defunct art institute of seattle, who i met with in my district, finally sought relief after more than a decade, or the previous a ministration made the process so unworkable that congress rebuked it on a bipartisan basis. together, these steps have canceled -- 4.6 million borrowers.

this is financial breathing room for students and families who are just trying to get a higher education and improve their skills so they can contribute to our communities, our economy, and our country. all borrowers turn to loans as a step towards economic prosperity, but student debt made it so impossible for many. i it's important to remember that more than 80% of borrowers report that it holds them back from being able to become homeowners, something you were talking about just in previous answer. additionally, 56% of borrowers have to choose between repaying and affording rent and groceries. rent and groceries. no one should be stuck with these kinds of payments that they can't afford. secretary cardona, your department released its first of two proposed rules to provide additional student debt relief. what type of borrowers will benefit the most and how will this improve their financial well-being? >> well, thank you for that.

the borrowers that would benefit the most are those who have had runaway interest and i mentioned the teacher who had $30,000 just in interest. that prevented her from being able to even attack the principal of the loan. so that's one. i mentioned public servants. you know, you mention teachers and firefighters. bipartisan bill. we want to make sure that you don't have to jump through hoops to apply for that. if you work for 10 years in public service, if you paid your loans, it should be automatically discharged. we have a teacher shortage, we have a nurse shortage and we wonder why. we are trying to make it simpler to have access to a bipartisan bill that will pass in 2007. >> thank you. textbooks have minute an enormous strain on student finances. they can cost up to $1200 annually and textbook costs are on track to double every 11 years. students can save by buying used books or renting or borrowing from their library,

but some institutions actually automatically bill students for their books. what is your department doing to prevent students from spending more than needed on their books or on other hidden fees that are really preventing students from accessing the kinds of supports they need for quality education? >> thank you for that question as you know, this is in negotiated rulemaking, so i can't really comment on specifically where we think we are going to end up, but we are taking a very close look at what students are payment for -- paying for. i have two in college next year. i reckon isa different fees and what they had up to, we want to make sure that our students are, the information is transparent and they are getting what they are paying for and it's not something that is assumed that they are going to need. >> thank you. i want to discuss federal k-12 education for children experiencing homelessness. your department's guidance for american rescue plan homeless use funding has really been incredible lifeline for those

families. for example, it helps provide gas cards and cover car repairs in an emergency to increase attendance and i know that these funds are expiring soon. what supports does the department have in place for families experiencing homelessness, including for after these funds expire? >> sure, thank you. you've identified an issue that's increasing in our country, homelessness. making sure that our students are protected and are able to learn in the conditions for learning are right. we are requesting $129 million budget request for fy 25. programs like preschool programs, supplemental instructions for students that fall behind because of the trauma of being housing into care. before and after school -- housing insecure. let me tell you, as a principal, that was the most expensive thing. making sure they don't have to bounce and find six different schools.

to have a solid, consistent education. transportation and in healthcare referrals is also something that's required. >> thank you, mr. sector. and mr. chairman, i asked for unanimous consent to enter into the record this report from schoolhouse connection called overlooked and almost out of time as well as an article called grocery cards and car repairs, how covid aid can -- >> no objection. >> i yield back. thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. secretary cardona, i appreciate you being here today. i did wonder if you might show up, given that you seem to have little respect for our congressional inquiries into the goings-on of the department of education. as you know, i recently sent you a letter about the failed 2024-25 rollout but much like parents and college students across the country, as of today, we have not received a response on what you are doing to remedy the problems you created for millions of

american families. so, today, with my time, i'd like to ask a few of these questions now. i'm a parent to a college student in a high school senior. i like to understand what contributed to the delayed and ineffective rollout of the 2024- 25 fafsa. >> thank you question. just want to assure you that i take oversight very seriously and communicating information with you is really important to us. our department has provided over 50,000 pages and responded to 35 letters from this committee alone. i take it seriously and i will continue to take it seriously. had many delays with fafsa, frustrating delays that we have been able to fix. is working out unanchored students who are listening to sign up. >> what would you say, what would you say contributed to the delays and the ineffective rollout? what were the controlling factors? >> there were some programmatic issues that required their engineers to reprogram codes and

-- >> and how much time were you given, from the time the bill passed to the time that you were supposed to rollout? >> excuse me? >> the simple vacation act, how much time are you given between the time the bill passed to the rollout today. >> i believe it was passed in the last demonstration. >> you know how many years that was? >> three years. >> what is your department doing out to support students and parents who have been unable to submitted who have been given incorrect financial aid information or who have not received their estimates? what are you doing for the students? >> that something we take very seriously and we are working very closely to provide resources for families. >> what kinds of resources. >> videos on how to figure it out. we have $50 million going into communities to making sure we are knocking on doors for those families that sought to fill it out. we have tutorial videos, we have a national strategy ymca, school districts. we are working closely with districts and i have to say,

you know, we've also worked on return to repayment. usgs servicing contracts, and what we are doing now to make sure that we improve processing is make sure that our fsa department is designed for the work that is being expected of us. we are asking for a budget -- >> given that you had three years to get this right the first time, why should we expect that this upcoming fafsa would be ready by october 1st? i know in the senate appropriations committee you recently said your expectation that it would be ready. why should we believe that? >> well, look. i would be happy to share what we are doing on a day-to-day basis, but we are taking this very seriously . we know how important it is to our families and to our schools and our schools have been extirpation and working very closely with us to deal with the updates and i'm happy to say that two thirds or more are already processing. we are committed to making a

better every year and opening doors to higher education. i can tell you that 60 to 70% of our students were applying for fafsa . that's not acceptable. we need to be closer to 95% range and that's what we are going to work towards and we are going to make sure that it opens doors to higher education. >> the frustration that i experience in trying to do the fafsa would certainly deter people from participating in that this year. as you know, the soft launch was, that's a generous term, using the word launch, it was clear that there was a hasty release to barely meet the letter of the law by all measures and in my view, it was a disastrous failure. what grade would you give yourself and the d.o.e. on the botched fafsa rule out? >> i'm committed to improving it -- >> what grade would you give yourself? >> i'm not in the classroom right now. >> will you're the head of the department of the education. what grade would you give yourself? >> we are committed -- >> you would not answer the grade level. i would give you an f. i think many would give you the same. were you given a congressional

directive to simplify fafsa? you spent a great deal of department hours, i understand, on the student loan allowed, but apparently not very many department hours were spent on simple find the fafsa that you had three years to do. your answers are about as unhelpful as the new fafsa rule out. seeing as five minutes is not enough to have this thorough conversation i sure hope you -- sure hope you will consider responding to my letter. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. secretary. i grade you differently. i think you done a great job under very difficult circumstances. and i want to follow up on the questions that mr. sablan asked you before about the areas about mental health. cognitive development specifically. we know from cdc and the

surgeon general that almost a third of adolescent girls in this country have seriously considered suicide or attempted suicide in the last year. we know from hhs that young people in 2003, about 5% were identified with serious issues about anxiety and depression in 2003 and in 2023, that number went to 30%. we know from work with, i think i mentioned this the last time you were here, -- susan or anna at stanford, their work on cognitive development, social media and the penetration of -- to adolescent neuroscience and the urgency of fixing this. as you see it and sort of the continuing of care for kids in your department. i've been to 70 schools in the 10 years i've been in congress and it always comes up in

conversations with students, administrators and teachers. they need more behavioral health. they feel like they are overwhelmed and you saw this in your career in connecticut. with my good friends, our two superintendents of public -- who work in constituents. california and tony herman. this is a real epidemic the long-term societal cost to the united states is very, very serious. so tell me a little bit of what we are doing and how we are partnering with the private sector research to make sure that we are doing this in a nonpartisan evidence-based way to deal with this really, and epidemic of anxiety and depression and cognitive changes for future generations. >> thank you for that question. i just kind of bring it back to my opening statement that said we have a lot of common ground here and mental health supports for students is one of those. i'm proud that the bipartisan communities act provided $2

billion to increase the number of social workers in our school. 40% more school social workers. i'm proud that there's 30% more nurses. there are proactive strategies to help students address anxiety or mental health needs. we know students are six times more likely to access mental health supports if they are provided in our school. in our budget, we ask for $200 million for full-service community schools because we know they work to support mental health but you mentioned what we can do together. medicaid reimbursement for students who do not have an iep , we simple find that process. all states can have sustainable dollars. we know that there will be a sunset of arpa so we want to make sure that there are sustainable dollars and we are

working in bipartisan fashion to make sure states and governors know what to do. that sustainable dollars for mental health, we cannot go back to the system we had in 2019 of emergency remodel of mental health support. >> on a related, but how you work on other departments. when i'm old enough to her that when we did reform, the biggest obstacle to people getting on their feet and getting a job usually, single women of color, were what you talked about in your opening comments, transportation and childcare. so what are we doing with the different departments to coordinate those efforts, 20 years later, we still have the same identified problem. it's become worse where i live in the bay area has the transportation and childcare intersect with behavioral health, by the way, for this community, to be able to get a job and be independent, which is nonpartisan. hopefully nonpartisan, it still a challenge and departments working to cross with each other, your department, d.o.e.,

working together and then with state agencies and local agencies. >> right, so we have a whole government approach on a lot of things. i mentioned the medicaid reimbursement. we are working very closely with health and human services to make sure that we are supplying the process and interagency fashion. in our budget proposal, in the president's budget proposal you will see an increase in early childhood education, which allows not only for students to address gaps before they grow, but parents are able to work and the cost of childcare is very high. so we are working very closely at the staff level and on the secondary level to make sure that our efforts are working to support those same families. >> good. i would love to follow up with you and be able to show where our successes and failures have kind of -- so we can continue to measure those in a thoughtful way and deal with these real epidemics that young people are facing with their parents. thank you. i yield back. >> thank you, i like to

recognize -- myself. you're going through great lengths to argue that the new title ix rule will not have -- setting aside the options of court decisions and setting aside that athletics is noted three times in the rule description, i have a very simple question, just hoping i can get some yes her nose. with rule changes, a three-year effort, can you assure us that your rules do not change protection of our girls has had for over 50 years. can you assure us that protecting biological girls from competing against stronger genetically stronger, bigger and faster biological men will not be considered a federal discrimination. >> thank you for the question, congressman. you are referring to the athletics mmi right? >> yes. >> that rulemaking process is underway. >> so yeah, and really, it's -- >> we are finalizing the rules. >> okay. >> okay, so is a possibility

that these girls would be competing against boys were refusing to, will be considered determination? is a possibility? >> i'm here to discuss, you know, what we are doing in education to help children, proposed rules, whether it's -- >> it's really yes or no. it should be a yes or no. is a bridge that we all know that you're trying to get across. is this something that you are looking at doing right now, possibility? >> i don't want to comment on a proposed rule that we haven't finalized yet. we have over hundred and 40 -- >> let's continue then. terry, mr. secretary, you are in a very unique -- millions of female athletes. americans of both sides of this debate need to know how deep your commitment is. would you force your daughter to undress in a bathroom with boys who are also undressing. >> you can't say no or yes on that? >> i would be happy to talk about it -- >> if your daughter was uncomfortable in a boys presence in a bathroom, or a locker room, would that be considered -- by your

ministration, discrimination or bigotry? >> as an educator for over 25 years -- >> you can't say yes or no to that? >> i love to respond to your question. >> so yes or no. is a consider, would it be considered dissemination if she did not want that to happen? >> as an educator for over 25 years, we have had -- >> okay. i don't have one in a few minutes here. girls have now entered into contact sports of -- would you allow your daughter to physically fight and get beat up -- >> i would be happy to, once we finalize our regulations on title ix athletics. -- >> there is a cherokee proverb. a man's highest calling is to protect a woman so she is free to walk the earth unharmed. i will say this, mr. secretary. with all due respect, i pray that our country will never, ever have the vision that your policies aren't now driving us

toward. it's a vision the teachers are boys that harming girl is no big deal. i pray that it warm in a country that produces -- the majority of men who feel the way that i do about my girls. i will give my life in a heartbeat for my girls in the blessings i have as they have no doubts about that. millions of men and women across this country that do not have faith, they do not have trust in you protecting our girls because of the policies you can say yes or no to. by the way, those are not very hard questions, as a father. it's either yes or no, and you can't answer that. i'm going to switch paces row quick. at the senate appropriations committee last week, you stated that there is an active investigation at columbia university, but your staff is not on site. as the protesting and harassment continues, this is an opportunity for the office of civil rights to see firsthand what's occurring and how columbia's failing to protect

the rights of its students. you implied earlier that you are running with the funds. i have a hard time believing that the -- i think it's a priority. is there a reason why this is not been happening on this campus? if it had been black americans dealing with tran09 bigots, would you have the same priorities? >> you cannot pick and choose which students you want to protect. the secretary of education, that might -- >> i'm sorry, i missed that. as a father, you can't -- sorry. you protect all of them. right? >> including our lgbtq students, sir. >> okay, so in other words, you are choosing your students over women., boys versus girls.

is a very simple question there. >> the new title ix regulations increase protections to all students, and increase protections for women. >> this is why american parents are really concerned about this -- you cannot answer -- okay. i will leave it at that. i recognize ms. mcbeth. >> thank you. mr. chair. secretary, good to see you today. look like something else there might have one to say. please feel free. >> time for sure but i wanted to comment that in 2009, we had 58 more investigators for title vi and we had a third of the

cases. we are in desperate need of additional support to make sure we can investigate the cases that we have in front of us so i can work on the budget on both sides of the aisle. >> thank you so much for being with us today. the last few decades that we've been focusing on our efforts getting students into college, making sure they get educated, but not enough on ensuring that they actually finished getting those degrees. to set themselves and their families up for future success. not just with a job, but really a lifelong career and career path. millions of americans, tens of thousands of dollars in student debt and they have no degrees or credentials to show for it. it's obvious that this is now the result -- not the result of user error, it's the result of

the failure of the country to provide the targeted resources and foster the school climate that is needed to ensure that every student can get the skills that will help them to achieve greater levels of success than was possible before they actually walked on campus for the first time or before the very first time that they actually logged into a classroom computer. we know that there are many paths to success when it comes to education and developing a strong and successful workforce. each is deeply personal. i am very proud that three legislative initiatives that actually lead in this very committee recently passed the house and echo our mission of meeting the needs of our students wherever they are. my colleagues claim that the american people are fiscally irresponsible but those are not the georgians that i know and that i live among every single day. the only way to afford school

is to take out a student loan. usually at a have very high interest rate. for decades, we've been telling people every single day that one of the best ways to get ahead in life is they have to have a college degree, and now, we are punishing them for trying to partake in the very thing -- and that is obtaining the skills that is necessary to -- one of the nations leading leaders in student retention's and success and my state's largest university received a post secondary grant, student success grant to study their use of modern technologies, they are using a.i. chat botsusing ai chat bots in their first year, freshman year for those first year students in math and also literature courses. and their potential to improve

the outcomes, and i'd like to ask the chair, may i include the georgia article? >> without question. >> in 2016, georgia included this ai to stay in touch with students over the summer and cut the number of high school graduates who were accept into gsu, but they failed to actually follow through on everything they needed to do to register be and be prepared for the false session. so this new technology and use of technology is actually helping more students live out their dream of attending college, because gsu was actually able to cut down that number of students that were not registering, and being prepared, they cut it down by half, and i think that's pretty amazing. according to dr. tim resnick, who testified earlier, this technology supports students by

reminding them about their assignments, asking questions after hours, and are generally far more accessible for students that have busy schedules. some students are parents. some are caretakers for family members. so for programs like this that truly put students first, we can present factors that truly prevent our students from succeeding in the classroom. my question to you, secretary cardona is post secondary student success grants, which i just talked about have the potential to become a premier grant program that will assist colleges and universities with their efforts to improve retension and completion rates and ensure student success. however, we know in a this program is kind of flat funded at 45 million for the past two years. could you please explain how the department's budget of 125

million will provide the students with the necessary means to support that they need to reduce these barriers to their success. >> ms. mcbath, you began your question with two seconds left, and you're 40 seconds over. so i'm going to ask the secretary to submit an answer to you in writing. thank you. mr. good, you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair, and thank you secretary cardona for being here today. secretary, do you think it's a person's responsibility to pay their own student loans? >> i do believe students who take out loans should pay loans. >> they should pay them back. thank you. what if it's hard or if it's difficult to pay it? >> many of the loans that we're providing relief for are loans that folks are eligible for. >> well we've long had relief in place for folks in difficult financial situations or reduced income to give them some relief

of paying their loans. so what if somebody just doesn't want to pay their student loan, or wishes they didn't have a student loan. they should still pay for it. >> yeah. >> that's all i'm looking for. they should still pay for it. do you understand how federal spending is paid? how is that paid for? >> the work that we're doing -- >> what i'm asking is, do you understand how federal spending is ultimately paid for? and it's not a trick question. >> no, but i wanted to just kind of go back to -- >> no, i'd like to know if you know how federal spending is paid for ultimately. >> yes. >> how is it paid for? who pays for spending? >> taxpayers. >> exactly. whether it's higher taxes or lower purchasing power from by inflation, or biden's rates,thy suffer under inflation. so student loan debt, you would say is legitimate.

it's legitimate debt, correct? >> the work that we're doing to -- >> is student loan debt legitimate? >> when i talk to students -- >> what i'm asking is student loan debt legitimate? i would presume you would say a mortgage loan is legitimate, a car loan is legitimate. you would presume those are legitimate debt. when someone invests in themselves and borrows for education, is that illegitimate debt, or is it legitimate debt. so you're agreeing that it's not illegitimate debt. do you think we should continue to make student loans when you and your administration are trying to transfer all the debt to the taxpayers, with the latest scheme that's estimated to cost maybe $750 billion. so should we continue to make student loans if you're not

going to ask folks to pay the loans? should we instead reclassify them as taxpayer provided gifts, or should we continue to make student loans? >> sure, the 75,300 constituents you serve wouldn't call it a scheme. they would call it a lifeline. >> should we continue to make student loans that we're not going to ask people to pay back, or should we go to taxpayer provided education gifts? >> so, i understand your line of questioning, sir, and if i can get an answer out -- >> what i would like to know, is should we keep making student loans if we're not asking people to pay them back? is there any reason, if i may, that people who go to the most so-called elite universities, the ones with the pro-hamas protests on their campuses right now, should people go to those universities, because they tend to be elite, my children cannot, and i couldn't

afford to go to a university like that. would be a waste of money, i would submit. but those who can make $250,000 as a family based on the previous original student loan transfer scheme, should others who worked their way through college, who tried not to incur student loan debt, should they have to pay from those elite schools making above average incomes? >> people are paying their loans back, sir. >> so other people shouldn't pay that student loan debt for them? >> that's not what i said. people are paying their student loan debt. >> i'm going to get in one last question. thank you, sir. in february, 16 different indicaters that the secretary, including yourself would indicate whether a borrower is in an economic hardship. however, it notes that the

powers can have their debt canceled, again, transfer the to the taxpayer, actually, based on hardship identified by yourself as secretary, is that correct? >> we have over a million people -- >> is it correct that it identifies any other indicater of hardship? >> we are fixing a broken system that requires -- >> what constitutional authority do you have to decide whether or not someone should pay a student loan debt or a taxpayer? >> i would welcome to answer, it's not as simple as you're asking it, so if you allow me to answer it, you might get the answer you're looking for. >> madam chair, my time is expired, so i yield back. >> thank you mr. good. ms. hayes, you're recognized for five minutes. >> i'd just like to say that mortgage loans are legitimate debt, and i can remember, in 2009 i was a teacher, i had a contract being paid $37,000 a

year, i was also a taxpayer, and i was not a homeowner, and the country decided that we would bail out the mortgage company through the home affordable mortgage program, and as an american, i recognize that that was good for our economy and i went to work every day, and i paid my taxes and we bailed out the mortgage industry and the finance industry and the auto industry. so the idea that we draw the line at student debts and people who just want a chance to get ahead, or have a fighting chance in the society is just something i can't wrap myself around, but thank you, mr. secretary for being here and happy national teacher appreciation day. across the country, university students are exercising their first amendment rights. i'm going to talk a little bit slow here, because this is what i used to have to do in my classroom when i talked about the first amendments, because my students would always say, but miss, why are there so many

in this one amendment? first amendment protects the freedom of speech, the press, the freedom of assembly, the freedom of reasonable religion and the right to press the government. when my students would ask me why are they all in this one amendment, i would generally respond it is the way we define who we are as individuals in a complex, changing self- governing society. there are so many things that i can ask you about today, because i believe so deeply in the work that the department of education does. i know that the work is life- changing. and it is the only shot that so many of our young people have. but i am deeply concerned about the rise in anti-semitism, and islamophobia on college campuses. like you, i know, like myself,

i know that you believed there is no place for hate speech or discrimination in education. i also know that as a an educator, it's beyond petigogy. if students don't feel safe and protected in their academic environments, they will not learn. and this is what the department is dealing with right now. as of april 30th, 2024, the office of civil rights at the department of education, which overseas investigations of discrimination at institutions of higher education has reported many cases of discrimination. past reporting by industry drive has shown a severe backlog in the processing and investigation of discrimination cases by the ocr, due to funding challenges over the years. secretary cardona, in your testimony, you mentioned that the department of education is asking for a $22 million increase in funds for fiscal year 2025 to expand staffing capacity. additionally, this funding

would be used to address the alarming reports of rising anti- semitism and islamophobia. many of my republican colleagues believe that the entire department's budget including ocr should be flat funded. i think we have to stop admiring the problem and actually invest the resources to address it. so secretary cardona, how would flat funding impact the ability of the department to process these claims in a timely manner? >> it would impact it significantly. over 90% of the budget requests are for investigators. >> you've also said that the investigator case load is at historically high rates with that about 42 cases per investigator. this would rise to 71 per investigator, which you describe as unmanageable. if funding for the ocr was to be increased, what would the department spend that money on? please be specific. >> investigators to investigate these open cases. >> thank you. we had university presidents here a few weeks ago, and one

of the things that they stated was that more guidance from the department would be helpful as they navigate in this space. what has the ocr done to proactively address claims of anti-semitism on campus? >> friday i sent a letter out to 5,000 university leaders. myself, this morning, we released a dear colleague letter with very specific examples. if you individual our ed.gov, there's a button there supporting campus safety. there are hundreds of resources there that were made specifically to support universities. >> i guess in closing, i would just like to add that it is, i think easier for my colleagues on this committee to dismiss certain groups constituencies, but i know that our job is to protect our students and make sure all students have access

to an education. thank you for being here, and again, happy teacher appreciation day. i yield back. >> thank you ms. hayes, you're recognized. >> thank you madam chair. i too agree with my colleague on free speech. but let me share with you what free speech does not protect. it does not protect violence. it does not protect defamation of property. it does not protect threats on one's life. so i am for the first amendment. but let's be clear, we know what the first amendment is. i also want to make sure that i understand before i get into my questioning, that the department of education's budget is $78.8 billion. and we're asking, you're asking for $3.7 billion, for a total of $82.5 billion, and that's just not enough money to do

your job. that's amazing to me. but there's no inefficiencies that we can find if we just give you more money, everything will be great. that was my rant. so thank you for listening to me on that. mr. secretary, president biden's department of education has canceled $153 billion in student loan. with plans to cancel $1.4 trillion. the house of representatives said no. we actually passed legislation on that. the senate said no. the fifth circuit court said no. and the highest court in the land, the supreme court, said no. yet, you continue to march on. i would like to know what makes you qualified to ignore the majority of congress and the supreme court? >> thank you, congresswoman. and let me just repeat, hate has no place in schools. i agree with you. and as the president said,

we're not going to condone anti- semitism. >> thank you, we can agree on that. >> for sure. we recognize the higher education system is not accessible, not affordable, and it's broken, and we are working within the law to provide debt relief. >> the house of representatives said no. the senate said no. the supreme court said no. yet you say yes. how is that possible? >> the higher education act gives me authority and -- >> so you alone have the authority, am i correct on that? you're higher than the congress, the senate, and the supreme court? >> no, that's not what i'm saying. i'll give you an example. public service loan forgiveness, bipartisan bill passed in 2007. poorly implemented for four years. only 7,000 people benefited from it. 98% of people were denied. we are implementing -- >> i appreciate that.

my question is really simple. what qualifies you to be higher in authority than the congress, senate, and the supreme court? >> i don't believe i'm higher than those groups. >> but your actions would show that. >> i'm acting within the right of the law with the higher education act. >> i would strongly disagree. the senate would strongly disagree, and the supreme court would strongly disagree. i'm confused on rights versus responsibilities. if you have a right to a loan, don't you have a responsibility to pay it back? >> yes. >> thank you. so you're in agreement with me, if you and i make a deal, and i say hey, i want to buy this car, that i should pay that car loan back. >> yes. >> you have a right if i buy a mortgage that i am responsible, not my neighbor. not the person across the street, but i'm the one who took out the loan.

i knew the risks. and i have a responsibility. why is education and loan forgiveness different, because i should have a house. >> thank you for that question. we have predatory institutions that are preying on students, putting them in debt and not -- >> we have slippery car salesmen that are preying on people too, so should we forgive their loans? i am asking a question. yeah? we have bad actors across the board. so if you're a bad actor, under that concept, i should forgive your loan. so if a slippery car salesman sells me a car, and gosh, i just got in a little bit over my head, we should forgive that. using that same principal. i'm asking a question, are we going to car loans next? if you're a shady character and sell me a bad car loan, the government, not the government, you, because you have more authority than congress and the supreme court, we should forgive those car loans too -- >> we have a responsibility --

the answer is of course not. we would not do that, because we have responsibilities in this country, and i love how we talk about free education. it's not free. are the teachers teaching for free? are the teachers teaching for free, really simple? i know we struggled with this last time. no. they're not teaching for free, somebody's paying for it, and the people who are paying for it are the american taxpayers. if you are a right, you have a responsibility. and shame on you for going over congress and the supreme court, and with that, i'm over, thank you. >> thank you, miss mcclain. pursuant to the previous order, the chair declares the committee in recess subject to the call of the chair. we'll reconvene in five minutes. thank you. all guests should remain prohibited by title six of the civil rights act of 1964. dissent is essential to