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tv   CNN News Night With Abby Phillip  CNN  May 6, 2024 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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healthier, with the oraa ring i'm katie bot in washington and vif is cnn welcome to a
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special edition of news night. i'm maddie philip in new york alongside kaitlan collins tonight re spect and the cost of compliance with the court. the judge has issued a if he does and if he doesn't threat to former president trump over his repeats he did breaking of a gag order and the paper trail takes a star turn no headline witnesses today in court. but instead, the jury got a crash course in the nitty-gritty details of the trump organization. it was a de of show and tell that included multiple checks and financial disclosures bearing the signature of donald j. trump. >> that is a critical piece of evidence that the prosecutors need to show that their case doesn't just rest on the word of pr jurors like michael cohen, there's also that question of a direct attack on the rule of law. >> the words of judge juan merchan, starting today addressing violation number ten
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they gag order that limits what the defendant here i can say. the judge seems poised to move past the fines, lamenting that those $1,000 amounts really are just a slap on the hand for the former president. but the question of jailing him also risks making donald trump look like a martyr, potentially a risk of the judge seems acutely aware of judge merchan on hello, donald trump this morning directly, mr. trump, it's important to understand that the last thing i want to do is put you in jail. >> and if you're wondering if donald trump left the court today, chastened by the judges warning. take a listen you know what is much more important than jail studying close i'll do that sacrifice any day our panel is here with us to break down the most important moments from inside that courtroom. joey jackson, robert raised aac shanidar, and dante mills all here in new york you got to feel for the judge here a little bit maybe not robert you
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got to feel for him alone it's a position to be in. it's tough position to be almost it has no choice at this point because there are so many violation. >> well, it's the warning. >> he has choices and he has to put donald trump on notice that the last straw has arrived before he then decides to make a decision to incarcerate that doesn't mean the judge has made that decision. >> but what he did today is a necessary prerequisite to taking that action. if you were to take it, i must say that i think that's i hope an avoidable result for all sides, avoidable for the judge, avoidable for donald trump.& most importantly, if the case travels down that road, what that means is probably an immediate standstill to the case. it means the jury is going to be stopped in its tracks. the trial will stop and we're going to be in a collective time-out when donald trump, in all likelihood, takes an appeal to a higher court, which would include the appellate division stayed in new york and possibly the state court of appeals. and that's
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not really in the public interest that that happened. >> and the judge noted that today saying, i am worried and i know that you care, mr. trump about how quickly this is proceeding along and that this would disrupt this and have a real pause. but joel jackson, i think the other side of it, when people look at it, say, well, would anyone else be able to violate a gag order ten times and still be able to only continue to get a slap on the wrist and the way that the donald trump is simple answer, kaitlan? >> absolutely not, right. >> and so if you look at it just going back the bottom line, is that the judges put in a very difficult position, but there's one person who could decide whether it's avoidable and unavoidable and that's the individual he speaking to mr. trump knows after the ten time after the first time, the second, the third time that there are things you can do and things you cannot do and the issue is i don't see this as stopping the trial and going to appeal. the judge has a number of options. you'd have to put someone in jail for 30 days. you can put them on time-out for a few hours. you can put them on time out over lunch
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period. you could put them on time out overnight. i mean, you have two and i think the judges acting very you mainly very non politically, but very sternly and saying that, look, we have options here. i don't want to do this, but if you leave me no choice at the end of the day, i have to provide for the decorum of this court, the dignity, the respect of the court. and ultimately i have to protect people and i will do my i will do what i am empowered to do if you force my hand and doing it, let's op does not. but if he does, i think he's going to have to happen. >> is he forcing his own hand? that's what i'm looking at because when you put somebody on notice, especially former president donald trump if you put him on notice, you have to follow through because he's going to come out and say he won if he doesn't my concern is donald trump may want this to happen and he may say he won if he is put in jail, but i want to say something. >> i don't think donald trump really wants this to happen because i practice in those courtrooms and the process of him even going in, even if judge merchan said, i'll put
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them in for three hours just to teach him a lesson which has been done before most defendants in manhattan criminal cord have not gone as far as donald trump goes in the number of violations, one or two, and you're, you're in might not be for 30 days. it might be for a few hours, but what's behind the courtroom? behind the wooden wall, behind the judge is a seal is a secret door, and that door goes to we're holding area and it's disgusting back there. there. there's a jail cell for defendants who are violent there sometimes are benches with metal clips to handcuffed defendants to a bench. and those processes happen. the hand coughing, the court officers surrounding the defendant, although in this case, there would be secret service detail in a very small enclosed, very dirty area that has high traffic of jailed defendants coming in and out of court it would be a surreal experience for donald trump if he pushed the limits and he is
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pushing, he's getting he's on the yeah he he is pushing them, although he hasn't since the first set of penalties came down, made new violation. so there's that, but he keeps almost it's more of a pr thing, saying that he wants to violate it, but not actually going that far because he knows where the leyen as well. >> you can say pr, but it's really communicating to the electric i mean, sure donald trump, and fairness to him, it donald trump mentioned the constitution and i wouldn't go that far, but i would say that he's weighing hey, calculus between compliance with a gag order and the judge's order versus his communication directly with the electorate. that's the calculation of ram. and if if it comes to push to shove he'll choose the electorate over incarcerated. >> i think that's what he said. he said today, but i don't fire prostitution to one side. he's in a campaign. he's a candidate, he's going to choose the electrode over
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lashes, say that he is talking every day. he talks to me every single day going into the court when he says that he he's barred from from being able to be out on the campaign trail on sunday, he went to the f1 race, he wasn't out on the campaign trail. he was in it was at f1. i mean, they could argue that's a campaign event, but the other aspect of this, when you're looking at donald trump and the judge did give him a little bit of a win. and when you read through the actual order today because he did not find trump in contempt for certain comments you made about michael cohen, their argument has been it's protected political speech because michael cohen is going out and attacking him before he quieted down. so when a chump, when trump says the judge is so corrupt and unfair, those are the words he uses. >> the judge has actually been pretty straightforward, wouldn't you say, well, you know, i think tail anyway, we've said that we've previously comment about that. >> i mean, just everything. a lot of people on both sides of this. i said it's sort of decided leon fair to allow a situation which you have a gag order where the witness that you're trying to protect us, the one out there talking and you're so theoretically not supposed to be able to talk about the same thing that he's
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talking about to the media and there was a voluntary pause. i understand. from michael cohen and he was right back at it again. >> yeah. i think the judges sort of figured that out and i think explain it as being fair. >> well, i think he he looked at that and i think i think that position with regard to that witness was partially indefensible, which is why had a course correction. look let's go back to where you started. the judges in a difficult position to this is not an easy thing to have to handle. you can speak to the electorate, but you can in also follow the order. >> there are things to be clear that he can do. life. we're only day simple. >> well, i'm not suggesting that this let me finish my point. that's right. when you talk about not semple, the bottom line, is there a certain things you can't do onto the gag order. we can all agree. you can attack the prosecutor, right. mr. bragg, de night, right? that is seems to me to be pretty clear and pretty simple. say, you want, you could attack the judge de night. say what you want. you could attack biden de night you
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cannot intimidate witnesses, you can attack the jury, you can attack family members. what's not simple about that? i'm not getting the bottom line is you can have your campaign, you can do what you need to do, but there are certain limitations that are necessary inappropriate to move forward and to protect witnesses, to protect families. and if you don't do that, there needs to be consequences and what those consequences are remain to be seen and jelly it's so simple, it's words on a page a court order is written. >> i mean, the judge will speak the order out and explain it, but you follow the order. you follow the words on the page it's not a flippant thing to just not follow a court order and i don't know why donald trump expects that he is so special that he shouldn't have to follow the same kind of wondering issued by every court yet, but is much and he's a female, doesn't the, united states, so the part of the mice did not simple is what happens if the judge says donald trump, you have to go sit in jail for even a couple of hours and he tells us secret service members don't touch me. i don't want them to touch me there are
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sworn to protect him. what happens then? that's why it's not simple. we don't know what the outcome of this is going to be, or what direction is going to go. but so i think the judges wisely trying to avoid because it's possibly have had discussions regarding that issue. right. this is not something they're built-in content. joe biden's is justice department has already weighed in with regard to what that's going to look like. i have i have news for you it happened right? yeah. but i don't think that's political. if joe biden's justice department is or isn't wing and it's a practical matter. i mean, the rate he's going ten violations, they have to have contingency plans in place. i understand that they even have a plan that if he was sent to a prison facility because of this that they're gonna have someone tastes his food even. i mean, they think all these things out, it's a really crazy, surreal situation. >> but getting back to the gag order is not a reason. it's not going to happen in the future back to the gag order. the gag order is not so simple because anytime a gag order starts to travel down the road of content, it is trouble. now,
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i understand an absolute bar with regard to some things about what you can say and who you can say at about. but the difficulty get when you start carving up witnesses about which ones you can you can talk about and which ones you can't. you're automatically getting into sort of controlling and the gag order controlling. you can be the exception from michael cohen, right? because michael cohen was talking my but the judge doesn't have authority over michael cohen, right? i don't trump is the defendant in his courtroom and under his authority, he can say, you can't talk about when we talk about something, an interesting dynamic in the courtroom, because what's at the heart of this is the judge in what trump was found and content contempt up today was a comment he made about the jury when he claimed and radio interview that it was 95% democrats. >> clearly, that is not a compliment coming from donald trump. i think we all understand what is intent was there, but what we learned today about what it's like sitting in that courtroom and as the 12 jurors are, of course, seated there, they can see donald trump, but something that i learned tonight from a
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witness is that the witness themselves can't see donald trump that because of where they are seated and how the judge's bench extends out past aware the witness is actually seeded that unless they lean forward pretty aggressively, they cannot actually make eye contact with donald trump. they only see the first attorney from his defense team right? it's the way the tables are set up i mean, it's like a huge courtroom with high ceilings the witness box is high up toward where the judge is. so if you have to look at an angle like you're saying, and donald trump is seated with all his attorneys at the defense table. if you're at the wrong angle, you're not going to see the defendant& i've also seen reports similar to that that donald trump is craning his neck to see the witnesses who went on today because unlike other days, his eyes weren't shut today. he was all attuned when his his trump organization employees were taking the stand there. >> constitution requires that he see them. yeah. yeah. there wasn't aphasia doesn't it doesn't require that the
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witness has to see donald trump makes it different if a juries testifying oh, i'm sorry. >> i was a witness is testifying about someone directly they should be able to look at them. right. because the jury wants to see that interaction, especially like think about hope hicks. the jury wants to see if they make eye contact with her facial expressions or light. it. donald trump is blue walked from her view, it takes away that component of it now that's what the jury can't really understand. they're missing a part of that relationship. and if she really is filling compassionate or sat that emotion has connected to looking at somebody in the eye is blocked. >> another attorney in previous hours, were arthur hala. we're saying that's partly by design in this particular courtroom, that that's how all the case is tried in this courtroom. are you cannot see the witness, cannot see the defendant& that that actually might protect a witness in a way from any kind of intimidation that might occur. >> at the end of the day is that the case is about the merits of the testimony as
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elicited by the witnesses with respect to who you can see and can't see while it might be an issue for some discussion. the bottom line is, what exhibits are being put in. does it prove up the case? does it not? what are the witnesses testifying to? does it meet the elements of the crime charged or does it not, et cetera, we could talk about the logistical seating arrangement i'm into the court de night. but when the judge gives the instructions to the jury with regard to their 34, counts, they're going to delineate what the standard of proof visit cetera, what the prosecutor should have proof should have not. and that's what the jurors are going to deliberate on and make additional credibility. it may show some credibility of the witness if they're truthful if i mean, cross-examination in my mind shows that when you're cross-examining a witness, the nature of their answers to your questions, whether or not they have the reliable information, whether they don't. that's not predicated upon who they say. it's predicated upon how they respond to my question. i just don't. >> but you're a defense attorney. i think trying a case and seeing the energy between the witness and the defendant, and seeing those small
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impressions on a defendant's face, i've had i've spoken to jurors after my client got convicted, and i said, what what happened, what was going on, and they said, you know, your client was glaring praying at the witness in the box the entire time and we didn't we didn't trust him. those little interactions really add to the theater of it and give the jury some kind of human perspective on what's going on between those two people, the defendant and the witness, those small things. >> i shift. where were you asked an important question? they kinda shift their eyes to look at the defendants, to see like are we are we together on this yesterday is not part of the jury instructions at the end of the de and i think limited to the volley between are nice questions and the answers that are given, not whether the defendant cranes is nac, whether he looks whether he looks the other way, that's not evidence. yeah. i mean, there's the atmospherics and then there burden of proof and write their human beings in the jury box. your word hey, what
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they see, your awareness is the right one a trial is theater. >> yes every and above all else. >> that is why we have trials because that's what a trial was like and that's the human interaction that a jury provides to this in terms of evaluating what's happening right in front of them. >> and a lot of things are not in the jury instructions that doesn't make any difference. if you could just read deposition transcripts, right that's why we call upon juries to make this judge me, it always thanks a difference with the jury instructions. >> everyone is a lot more to talk about ahead. >> we'll talk about today's testimony, which gets to the heart of these charges against donald trump. plus, there's breaking news tonight on two fronts. we are getting word of explosions and gunfire at the raffa crossing in gaza as israeli forces move in this, as hamas says, it has accepted a ceasefire deal brokered by outside nations we're also getting word tonight that nasa and boeing have scrubbed what was supposed to be a historic launch over a technical issue. more details on that. i had the
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light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. to $50,000 go to upstart.com. i'm kevin lift, ttac at the white house. and this is cnn breaking news tonight explosions and raffa israel is said to be on the verge of taking over the palestinian sayyed of that cities crossing with egypt were also getting word of gunfire heard on the egyptian sayyed of that border. >> these attacks come as hamas says, it has agreed to a ceasefire deal proposed by egypt and qatar. the news had gardens celebrating in the streets. however, israeli say that there is no deal on the table that hamas has agreed to, that they were a part of so they are sending representatives back to the
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negotiating table. meanwhile, in tel aviv, families of the hostages implored israeli leaders to accept that deal. and a source shared a document with cnn that puts some of the details of the proposal in public view and the first phase, hamas would release three hostages a week, specifically women, children, elderly, and the sick for six weeks, then they would release an additional 15 hostages in exchange, israel would have to gradually withdraw its forces from parts of gaza, stop all reconnaissance flights for ten hours a day, allow free movement non armed palestinians throughout the gaza strip and israel would have to release hundreds of palestinian prisoners, 30 palestinian women and children for every israeli hostage released by hamas the first phase would also allow for humanitarian aid to enter the region the specifics of that second phase, though, are still unclear, but the document that cnn reviewed said that it would include sustainable periods of calm in gaza& for the release of the remaining
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hostages. that third phase would be a years-long plan to rebuild gaza us officials are describing this as more of a counter proposal by hamas, given that it includes provisions that israel never agreed to joining me now is a senior fellow at the foundation for defense of democracies and the former idf spokesperson, retired lieutenant colonel jonathan mann ruckus, also with us, the editor in chief and chief and ceo as a teo, mehdi hasan. i know you haven't exclusive report about a letter that republican senators sent to the international criminal court we will get to that in just a few minutes, but i want to ask you about this reporting about hamas saying publicly they've agreed to a ceasefire deal but it's really a counter proposal that they that includes elements they know israel never agreed to. so it was this some kind of propaganda effort by hamas to say, we're at the table we're agreeing to something the reporting we have says that
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yes, it was an egyptian qatari proposal, that the americans were involved in two avi to see to bill burns has been involved in this these rayleigh's apparently were on board until of course, hamas agreed. >> and then the israelis bluff was called and now they're saying, well, we don't agree to this proposal because we want to free the hostages even no, the proposal would help free the hostages and i just second, he's really newspaper. i just want to i just want to add a one bit of information i think is critical here. the part that israel didn't agree to is that the part that calls for a permanent end to the war? and i think this is really what is at issue here that israel has never agreed to that and that maybe this is a counter proposal. but that means essentially that everybody has to get back to the table and agreed to what is on the table now yeah, but let me just say in what world is hamas going to say we're going to release all the hostages, then you carry on killing us. obviously outside world america, western countries has been wanting a cease fire for a while. >> we were told hamas was the obstacle, and now they're calling israel's block the
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reality is that the obstacle to a hostage deal has always been benjamin netanyahu. and those are not my words. those are the words of home ruben sign the former spokesperson for the hostages family, who told these really press last week that netanyahu has been the obstacle. he says that they found that there was a deal on the table back on october 9th, 10th, to get hostages released, but netanyahu hidden from them. those are the words of the spokesperson for the israeli families of the hostages. and he hit it from them because he knows that if he agrees to it a hostage deal, his fascist colleagues in his coalition government will collapse as government. this is israeli domestic politics. >> lieutenant colonel. >> what about that? >> i mean, if the hostages are all released shouldn't israel seriously consider ending hostilities in gaza and allowing for a political settlement that leads to the future yeah, i'm listening to the second edition of matthew hassan's monologue that i saw earlier. >> and it's not surprising that your parenting hamas
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talking points really the let's put things here in perspective. we have a terrorist organization that abducted civilians and soldiers the other one funds for the last four months have been refusing any deal that israel, the us, qatar, egypt, and others have put forward. and now when push comes to shove and when they see israeli tanks lined up on their way to refer all of a sudden they are agreeing, they're agreeing to something that wasn't on the table. and it's quite absurd that this is even how it's covered and it's classic deception, one-on-one by an organization that is very savvy in deception and unfortunately has figureheads and mouth pieces all over western media doing their work, whether it's on jesse or other places and getting that message out that israel is the problem when israeli civilians and soldiers are the ones that have been abducted. >> i let betty has respond to that so i think all of your viewers saw me quote, the
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spokesperson for the israeli hostages families, and the kernel then said, i'm parroting hamas talk kim points. >> he's, he's referring to the hostages families as hamas as parroting hamas talking points because i quoted them, i didn't quote hamas. in fact, tonight, the kernel knows that hundreds of people went to netanyahu's house and screamed, you have blood on your hands. israeli protesters i guess they're all hamas, right? the israeli position now is anyone who disagrees with them is hamas. i'm guessing tomorrow they'll say see either to bill burns who was involved in this hostage negotiation deal, he's hamas to everyone's hamas and ask for deception i mean, come on the colonel was a spokesperson for the idf, which has spent the last six months. leyen, abby, your network has debunked the belies that the israeli military has told cnn is jeremie diamonds. i urge all your view is to go and watch your colleague, jeremy diamonds report on ten kids killed in the alma ghazi refugee camp last month. these really said we have nothing to do with it. and yet jeremie interviewing three munitions experts who looked at the evidence said, yeah, israel killed those ten
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kids. so when we talk about deception we're learning from the masters here. >> lieutenant colonel, the hostage families are urging the government at this 0.2 come forward and release the hostages as part of some kind of deal one of the things that the families have sad is that they feel like they are being abandoned how do you respond to that given that there are opportunities, it seems to take a deal that would stop the fighting in exchange for getting their loved ones lieutenant colonel, i'm not sure you could hear me. can you hear me now i think, we're going to try to get him back, but many i do want to get back to one other aspect of this, which is from israel's perspective, they want to make sure that hamas is not in a position to ever attack them. again. i think you would agree that that's a reasonable
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position for them to have so hostages all being returned. if they say that's not enough i mean, hamas, it seems like shouldn't be in a position to be dictating the terms of their own surrender in a war that they started so it's a good question. i mean, it's a reasonable goal. of course it is. but if you don't want hamas to be in a position to attack you again, maybe you shouldn't energize and embolden hamas this entire conflict has turned palestinians and the entire region against israel. it's made israelis less safe, not more safe. it's obviously killed tens of thousands of palestinians israel has a right to say, okay, we don't want to be attacked again, but at what cost? 34,000 palestinians dead, tens of thousands more under the rubble 14.5 thousand children dead, 1.2 million people hiding out in raffa. now being told to move to be relocated 600,000 children. i'll be unicef say you cannot move 600 thousand children, many of whom are sick, wounded, malnourished. they say it will be a catastrophe. there is no
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safe zone to go to. it's the most orwellian phrase that is rarely spokespersons use. there is nowhere safe in gaza. so of course, israel wants to reasonably not be attacked again. but doing this doesn't work, and it's morally unsustainable. >> it looks like we have jonathan could wreak is back. lieutenant colonel, i do want to talk about this raffa invasion that seems to be on the horizon here. our colleague are acre vdd is reporting that sources tell him that israeli forces aren't gonna take over the palestinian side of the raffa crossing between egypt and gaza. we're already seeing what seems like bombs falling there tonight why is israel doing this when they know that there is no safe place as mary was saying, four civilians to go and raffa, the place that initially these really government told them to go yeah, i would take everything that my respect that calling to the panel here says with a lot of pinches of salt, lots of untruth was said when i was on air and all and i won't to
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give them credibility by repeating them. >> what i'll say is this laptops is a place where hamas and own law has told people to go the sad reality and gaza is that hamas uses these civilians as human shields and doesn't leave is well with any other auction books to ask people to leave now it's all it's doing that out of concern. for human life and their safety tenant kernel, i have to stop you there because the idf told gausian civilians to move to the south. >> raffa was the only safe place for supposedly safe place for them to go. so this is not about unrwa. this is actually where they are going because the rest of the country is in rebel. so where are they supposed to go now right? >> so there are various locations in gaza, a few miles north east of afaf and northwest of close to her newness. where they can go and hopefully they will go and i
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agree, i take thank the point that it is a harsh environment and not an ideal environment for anybody to live in. i wouldn't want to be there to be frank. >> but the sad reality is that responsibility for this situation lies on hamas, his shoulders, and i think that if we detach ourselves from agendas and ideas and israel hatred and if we look at the situation so from a, let's say you're more clean perspective, what choice that is. >> we'll have. what choice does israel have in order to defend its civilians in their homes promise is allowed to continue to exist, to store weapons, and to prepare for the next attack. then it is only a matter of time before these attacks will come and those so not my words, mesto, those are the words of hamas leaders who say that we will do october 7 again and again until we reach tel aviv and jerusalem. i don't think that is what should allow that to happen. and if it means sadly, moving people around before combat stalls and making sure that they are safer, not saying but
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safer away from house way by telegraphing israeli intentions, then i think that it is a very humane thing to do. we have mass sadly must be defeated. we do, i do need to, i need to move on, but i just want to say one thing. >> i mean, this is not a question of hating israel. it's a question of the reality on the ground, which is that there there's already a humanitarian catastrophe unfolding in gaza, and there's no question that trying to move it over 1 million people in short period of times is not going to be something that is feasible. but i have to get to your reporting and i do want to talk wrong. i do want to talk i don't agree. >> and that has been proven oh you don't agree that there's a few mediterranean task strophe occurring, right now. i don't know. i don't agree that it cannot be done because i didn't say that it's the same leinz that were told this for the same things that were told to israel before it will start at its invasion of gaza city. and believe me, i answered that
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question hundreds if not thousands of times, and we were it was alleged that this was tantamount to walk crime that we were asking people to move when in fact, it was possible 900,000 out of a median 0.1 key di intentionally moved and it's saved a lot within. and. i think that's the same talking being now by the same hamas mouthpieces, matter, you could go ahead so nbc news reported last month, abby, that's seven different airstrikes from israel took place in what were designated a safe zones by israel. palestinians were told to go to save zones by israel and then kill filled in those safe zones by israel. that's reporting from nbc news, but i'm sure the kernel would say they're hamas as well. everyone who disagrees with the kernel is hamas. and by the way, he's quoting a hamas spokesman, none of us like cms, but let's quote someone on his side, the liquid party international vice chairman, party. he said he said a couple of days ago, the liquid party vice chair, can
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you can respond to this quote, the likud party vice chair, international vice chair set on israeli tv a couple of days ago, there are no uninvolved civilians and raffa know there are no innocent people and refer 1.2 million no innocent people. and we should go in. these are his words& kill, and kill, and kill sounds pretty genocidal to me, kendall, do you agree with that? >> i agree that those are comments that are horrible and shouldn't be thought and shouldn't be said. and i'm happy that you don't have to explain the likud party or whoever that is that your sourcing and i don't haven't heard the quote, but i can tell you what the chief of staff the guy that is is responsible for the use of force in girls and he speaks relentlessly about not killing civilians and he gives orders not to kill civilians division 18,000 to apply this distinction and to apply proportionality. and speaking about safe zones yesterday for soldiers were killed when mortars were fired from a from a safe zone at israeli soldiers. and i'm sure that it's not wouldn't bother
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you too much that for soldiers are killed, but they were killed, fired from a safe zone happened yesterday. i don't have an msn. we see ripple to quote it, but it happened nevertheless all right, guys. i have to leave it there. many you have some really important reporting about a letter from republican lawmakers to the icc about the possibility of arrest warrants for israelis as it relates to war crimes. you can go onto the tails website to find that reporting unfortunately, we are out of time here. mehdi hasan jonathan mann, rekha. thank you both for an important conversation well, thank you. thank you. >> and, up next to see what the jurors saw today in cord that goes to the heart of the charges against donald trump plus, there's more evidence that donald trump was at the center of everything that went on in his business will discuss that every week de morning.
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easiest way to reduce sugar this is cnn. >> the world's news tonight. >> follow the money the prosecution tried to walk the jury through the standard operating procedures. i'm donald trump's business organization. it's an empire that function less like a billion-dollar behemoths more like your mom-and-pop corner store. but the former president at the center of everything say that legal analysts, jodi jackson has been pouring through the transcripts of today's testimony joey, the prosecution asked the bookkeeper to talk about how trump signed the checks and dealt with money. and now we have the entrance of the sharpies we certainly do. and let's talk about what those sharpies. this is the account and of course, deborah tarasoff. and so this was what happened in response to brass
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tacks. we're right now on the actual documents. right. so what happened? prosecutor asked the following question. what if you cut a check from the dj t account? did mr. trump have to sign the check because mr.. weasel berg, of course, he's the chief financial officer or was approved. it witness answers. no. if he didn't want to sign it, he didn't sign it. prosecutor then asked, did you ever see situations where he didn't sign checks witness? yes prosecutor than asks abby what would happen in those situations? witness tarasoff, the accountant, he would write void on it and send it back prosecutor than asks, how do you know he would write void on it? answer by the account ms tarasoff, it was signed in a sharpie and black that is what he usually uses. >> okay. so this is significant because now we're getting into hardcore evidence, right? remember it's about the business records, the legend here's the invoices, the
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checks you have an accountant here who ultimately who deals with these issues. and this is significant because it goes to donald trump's knowledge or intent if you believe it, he took his sharpie pen might have been in the white house, and he ultimately sign the checks, the xhat demonstrate his knowledge. does that demonstrate he was part of the conspiracy? heresy. does that demonstrate that he was engaged and falsifying business records to conceal and other crime. that's a jury question, but we had hard evidence more than a jury question. it wasn't dealt with really, that part was not dealt with. however, i mean, i thought it was very significant not that he signed the check, but that there were checks that he didn't sign and that if he didn't want to make a payment, he just wouldn't do it right. >> and there was a lot of talks from his two employees today that everything went through him very consistent with hizon even david packer from the national enquirer said donald trump's and mike for a manager. and the prosecution don't forget, even though the prosecution goes first, abby
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this is their witness. it's donald trump's employee, but they're calling the witness because they have to establish this chain of getting in the business records into the case. like joey said, it's 34 counts of falsifying business records. >> but the details that are coming out from these witnesses were very significant today. >> for example, the checks being paid back to michael cohen from january to december of 2017 when trump was already in the white house, when the trump organization process the check for donald trump to sign from his own personal account, the donald j. trump account. >> they would fedex the checks to the white house and then they would be sent back to the trump organization for processing. >> what's unusual here. and i think maybe the jury might be thinking this and it's intentional on the part of the prosecutors why is donald trump paying michael cohen $35,000 a month for 12 months while he's president of the united states,
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what are those services that michael cohen is providing? and the whole crux of the cases that those were allegedly services provided for the hush money payments to stormy daniels before the election? now he's allegedly getting reimbursed after the election at different amounts, and that's part >> corn with his his attorney there. that's not in dispute. >> so it's not a legal to pay your attorney is also not a legal for those checks to go out. what has to be illegal is the ledgers. what was indicated on those checks, and we got right up to the door and it didn't close. >> it's not illegal to pay your attorney retainer fee right now. the issue is, was this a
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retainer fee or was it knowledge that you were reimbursing your attorney that you directed to pay hush money. that's the issue. and that's what the jury is going to decide. this is not done. we don't have an answer to that though, right? well, we may have reasonable occurrences from the facts. what is the he president of the united states doing, taking his personal account, paying his lawyer specific money from that account on a monthly basis noted as reimbursement reimbursement for what what specific legal services that you perform that would justify that payment or was it because you had knowledge that you were giving him a bunch bonus because he was doing your bidding at your behest paying off a point. but even that is not illegal in business documents that is the legal part where we don't have that in front of you on this are we sitting there quietly and the answer here is three two questions where there are no, no and no and i mean, you're
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right. i mean, i good luck with a prosecution case arguing inferences from the volitional act of the ceo of the company signing the checks you know i just know it's but there's more than that. okay. is this mic talk about that? it was a retainer agreement. this came out today and i think this is a big deal. okay. michael cohen every month, again from january to december of 2017, sent an invoice by email to the trump organization that said pursuant to the retailer fair agreement. here's my invoice for services rendered in the following month. and the bookkeeper describe the whole process we have to have an invoice. we don't pay unless there's an invoice. but the da's office has already signaled and put out there that there is no retainer agreement& that information was actually contained in the di as of fact that was issued on april 4 of 2023 when the case for got indicted. there is no retainer agreement. ever do remember that. >> and the argument would be
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that this was a scheme to conceal the arrangement. i mean, if it didn't if it had been an arrangement for a confidentiality agreement made in a really transparent way. we wouldn't be here. >> i get the scheme argument and i get the fact that it's happened or coconspirator floating around the part that the prosecution has to prove that's nice, except that none of those people are on trial. the only person who's on trial is donald trump and less, as you suggest, they can prove that donald trump has that intent. they don't have it. >> they that's what they've got approved. that's what they've got approved now that way of proving it that part's not there, were 12 days into this thing. no. >> i understand that we are ten days probably. yes. all i'm saying so we're we're not there. i think it's coming. we've got a couple of weeks. they said maybe i thank you. >> and i think evidence is pretty must have missed it no, no and no might've been yes. yes. yes? >> it was a panel night. my good panel. you all have been excellent and i thank you very much for joining us. and just in nasa is scrubbing tonight's
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i know so believe it or not, abbey, this scrub head, nothing to do with boeing. >> it had to do with united launch alliance is rocket. so the way this works, you have the boeing starliner or spacecraft on the very top. that's that gum drop shaped capsule. were astronauts, which will more and sunny williams are or were tonight and that is what's actually being tested in this test light. but tonight, the problem was with the ul, a rocket, the atlas five that propels the boeing starliner into orbit and what's so bizarre here is that this is a tried and true rocket. >> it's flown 100 missions where this would have been its 100th flight. >> so you wouldn't necessarily think that that's where the problem would arise tonight on a night with pitch perfect weather but hey, that space. so there's a press conference on going what we learned is that the issue was with a faulty oxygen relief valve, the way it was described as a valve on your home water tank that vince
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gas. >> there's a problem with that. they're going to try again tomorrow. abby, but it might be a delay of several more days if they have to actually go up and replace that valve me while a testament to the checks and balances that are in place to make sure that everything is exactly what it should be going up into space first and fisher, thank you very much for that. >> thank you for watching news night. laura coates picks up our special coverage next welcome to the world of spycraft garage, glued to the action. let's get down, let's get funky what are you concealing you a communist sympathizer supervisor streaming exclusively on macs
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